Television Interview - Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: All right, joining live now, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, and former Liberal MP Jason Falinski, to talk through all of this. Patrick, what do you think of the sort of outer suburban swing, it was bigger the further out that you travelled, essentially, is that a bit of a lesson for Labor? How do you counter that coming to the federal election?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, Tom I think we knew that the result in 2021 was an extraordinary result for Mark McGowan, and indeed, what we got on Saturday was an extraordinary result for Roger Cook and his team. They have won at least 41 and it looks like it will be a few more seats. I mean, that is an incredible result for a third term government. Now, if I think about what I've heard from some of the Liberals, and I see Andrew Hastie has been out in the media today saying, "Oh, the Liberal Party is too obsessed with, you know, inner suburban electorates". I mean, well, what is he saying? He's going to give up on some of those places. He's going to give up on some of the seats that, like the one that Jason used to represent that was on the coast. I mean, I think we're going to see a lot of infighting from the Liberal Party over the days ahead. And if I look at the data that you just shared with us in terms of Swan Hills, Swan Hills, still a six per cent Labor seat. I don't know where the Liberal Party is taking comfort in all of that, these are extraordinary results for Roger Cook and his team, and also shows that local members who put in the effort make a difference, whereas you've got Shadow Defence Minister Andrew Hastie wanting to wave the white flag and give up on a bunch of electorates. Pathetic.

CONNELL: Jason, what do you make of that city-outer suburban, I suppose, internal debate that's going on. Not even the high profile Basil Zempilas got a big swing. It looks like he'll squeak over the line, but that's about it.

FORMER LIBERAL MP JASON FALINSKI: I'm sorry, what did you say? Did he get a big swing, Tom?

CONNELL: He won't get a big swing. He's going to get a swing of about four or five per cent and as a result, he'll squeak over the line.

FALINSKI: Tiny! So look, first things first, Patrick, who clearly was the mastermind of this campaign, deserves great credit. Roger Cook did an excellent job in executing on Patrick's plan, and it all came together on the night. So congratulations to Patrick. Secondly, look after May 22 what was very clear to me, and I think to a lot of others who lost their seats, was that the Liberal Party needed to focus on working class Australians who have aspirations for the future. What has occurred in WA is that hasn't happened. I don't know why Andrew would say what he was saying about people being obsessed about inner city seats. I don't think it's about geography, I think it's about the voter that the Liberal Party is trying or the the Australian that the Liberal Party is trying to focus on, and what sort of future we want for Australia. And if that's a better, more prosperous future, then that means that we represent aspirational Australians.

CONNELL: Has "inner city" become a dirty word for some Liberals, Jason? It seems to be the case.

FALINSKI: Well, Tom, you're saying that. I just say to people who say we can ignore a certain class of Australians. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with Patrick. I mean, what? What pathway are they suggesting there is for us to form government, not just in Western Australia, but across Australia. We need to represent all Australians, regardless of where they live. And I think it's a bit convenient for some members of the Liberal Party who happen not to live in the inner city to say, "Oh, we can ignore those people". I mean, it's just it seems self-defeating to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

CONNELL: Alright, you're agreeing with Patrick. Now, I'm sure we'll career downhill soon enough. On that front, Patrick, what have you made of Fremantle? Tell me about the pronunciation. Mr old man's always said "Frmantle", which sort of makes sense to me, but you can correct him or me, your choice. But this is now we're seeing Climate 200 backed candidate actually go after Labor. Is this is what you're worried about in the future, because they've basically just targeted the Libs so far.

GORMAN: Well, let me just correct a few things for your viewers, and then we'll get into the analysis of the seat of Fremantle. Firstly, the pronunciation is "Freemantle". I grew up there, so I would hope that I know. Secondly, when it comes to the excellent campaign that WA Labor ran, culminating on an excellent result on Saturday night, I want to give due credit to Ellie Whiteaker as the Party Campaign Director here in WA. Her, Lauren Cayoun and the team have done an excellent job, and full credit to them. Now, when it comes to what we're seeing in Fremantle, what we are seeing is obviously Climate 200 broadening where they are choosing to put their money. The mastermind of this campaign was someone who has been deeply involved in some very divisive protests in my electorate, where they blockaded roads to hospitals, blockaded roads to the Perth Children's Hospital, denying people access to medical care in previous years, and that was the mastermind behind this campaign in Fremantle. So I think the more that people see, the more questions they'll have. I'm definitely not giving up on Labor's chances of holding on to that seat. There's a full preference distribution happening right now with the under siege Electoral Commission, but I'm hopeful that Simone McGurk, who I spoke to yesterday, I'm hopeful that she can get over the line. She's been an excellent minister. She's a great person to represent the people of Fremantle, and I hope that's the conclusion those constituents make as well.

CONNELL: I'm always loathe to criticise electoral commissions in my line of work, so I'll just say they seem to be taking a slow and steady wins the race approach. Jason, you have spoken about this, I don't know, 11,000 times, the Climate 200 mob, they're targeting Labor now. You must be saying, "great, alright, everything's fine now, all's fair in love and war."

FALINSKI: Tom, can I just commend Patrick on his humility, refusing to claim any responsibility in this great win. That's what I love about him most.

CONNELL: Yeah, move on.

FALINSKI: But the thing that I just I think there are a lot of local factors in Fremantle and that particular seat. Look, you know, I know that the Labor Party for quite some time, have enjoyed watching the Teals spend millions upon millions of dollars in particular seats. They've enjoyed the fact that there has been little scrutiny of the Teals which, frankly, the Canberra press gallery should really have a hard look in the mirror about why that has been the case, and I think now that they've decided to go after the Labor Party, although I suspect that this is a one-off, that might change, and that's a good thing. I think it's a good thing that everyone who seeks office is properly scrutinised, and that hasn't been the case when it has come to Climate 200 and their candidates.

CONNELL: All right, let me ask you, while you're on a roll, Jason, insurance. I'm trying to figure out what your side of politics is actually going to do here. Divestment, is that something you'd be okay with as your classic small L liberal, of the insurance companies.

FALINSKI: I think you're talking about free market economics, Tom and no, we're not okay with divestment. It's an idea that, really, I don't think has proven to work anywhere in the world. The threat of divestment has often worked, but the actuality of making large corporates divest things has proven to be disastrous.

CONNELL: If you threaten and you never believe it, then the threat doesn't work, does it? 

FALINSKI: It's a bit like Donald Trump's tariffs, observed more in the breach than in in the observance. So, you know, at some point someone says, "listen, this is just Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling".  But it's not good economic policy, to be blunt. However, some have said in the past that threatening it does get companies to pull their heads in and to think more carefully about how they service their customers. It's nothing compared to however the threat of competition.

CONNELL: Yeah, I must say, my five-year-old saw through me a long time ago. "You won't go to that birthday party!" She figured out it was the hollowest of threats because I'm the soft one. Patrick, what do you make of, you don't have to comment on my poor parenting, but what do you make of insurance companies? We've had a bit of a threat from Anthony Albanese today.

GORMAN: Well, what I think obviously, what we want to see right now is insurance companies doing the right thing by their customers, and that's what I want to see right now. What it tells me a lot about the problem with the Liberal National Coalition, which doesn't work, it is a dysfunctional arrangement, is that we've seen that in Western Australia, they spent all their time fighting amongst themselves, and they got a result where the people figured that out. Don't want to see coalitions fighting amongst themselves, and now today, rather than focusing on just the immediate things that are needed, getting insurers to put money out the door to support their customers, the Liberal Party and the National Party have started sort of round four of their fight on divestment powers. Now that's a policy debate that they've been having for about a year now. I think we first saw it in the aftermath of the Budget last year. I think they need to actually sort out what is it that they're going to do, rather than giving people false hope, and also focus on the here and now, right now, they should be doing what we're doing, which is telling insurance companies across Australia do the right thing by customers, give them the support they need.

CONNELL: So should they just be saying "naughty!" and waving their finger? That's what they should be doing?

GORMAN: Well, I expect that insurance companies will listen. I expect that they will do the right thing by their customers and provide support. We're doing everything we can to provide support for local government areas that are affected. We've taken that responsibility really seriously. The Liberal Party and the National Party have descended to the only thing they know how to do well, which is to continue infighting.

CONNELL: I'm so far over, ten seconds Jason or I'll be booted. What have you got?

FALINSKI: The problem with all of this is the insurance companies have been doing the right thing, the people who haven't been doing the right thing are the local, state and federal governments. Some of those houses will now were rebuilt in May 22 by insurance companies. Some of them haven't even been finished yet and will be rebuilt again by insurance companies. So instead of governments doing the right thing and getting people to relocate to areas that don't flood, it's insurance companies and their customers that are bearing the costs.

CONNELL: Okay, that's a whole other debate, a worthy one, but one we don't have time for today. Jason, Patrick, thank you. We will talk next week. 

GORMAN: Thank you.