Radio Interview - 6PR LIVE with Oly Peterson

OLIVER PETERSON, HOST: Question Time on Perth Live. At eight minutes past four, we step into the federal election edition of Question Time with Labor's Patrick Gorman, who joins me in the studio today. Patrick, good to see you. 
 

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good to see you, Oly, and good to chat to your listeners, and hello to Michaelia, who I know is listening on the phone.

PETERSON: Yes, she is. Michaelia Cash is joining us via telephone for the Liberal Party. Good afternoon. 

MICHAELIA CASH, SENATOR FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Patrick. It was good to see you on Saturday night in the Legislative Assembly.

GORMAN: We had good company. I think I had a better night than yourself, but it was good fun and always good to analyse the state election. 

PETERSON: Well I can see that smile from ear to ear still on your face, Patrick, it was a pretty thumping victory for Roger Cook and WA Labor.

GORMAN: Congratulations to Roger and his team. What we saw was local members who'd put in a lot of effort across the board, getting re-elected and winning a third term is always hard. It's hard in this state, and it's hard for progressive parties across the world at the moment, and I think Roger has done an excellent job getting his team back into office so they can keep doing the work that they're doing. It's a really strong endorsement from the Western Australian community that people trust WA Labor.

PETERSON: What went wrong for the Liberals, Michaelia Cash?

CASH: Well, in the first instance, I've been out at the Mindarie Marina today on the ground with Jan Norberger, our candidate there just talking to people. Very clear message, WA is not broken, Canberra is broken. And the message I got from people was, we need to protect WA from the disastrous decisions of the Albanese Labor Government. I mean, I've said it a number of times. It was very clear in Western Australia that the voters did not have any baseball bats out for Roger Cook. In fact, and you would have heard this Oly for a number of months, the consistent feedback from our state colleagues was that when they were door knocking, the most common topic raised by voters was the poor performance of the Albanese Government. Now, in any normal circumstance, talking about a 12 or 15 or 20 per cent swing, you know, it would be recorded as a massive landslide, but the fact of the matter is, Roger Cook, like the WA Federal Liberal team, has stood up to Mr. Albanese on a number of issues.

PETERSON: But there's a 20 per cent swing, but they're not going towards Liberal, Michaelia. So is the brand trashed? Is it tarnished? So what does the Liberal Party in Western Australia stand for?

CASH: Well, overall, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it didn't translate to seats for the Liberal Party. But the reality also is the state Liberal team was starting from so far behind. I mean, the McGowan, literally, we were massacred at the 2021 election, it's as simple as that. We were reduced to two seats. One of those members was not successful in his pre-selection. So we were starting - 

GORMAN: Lot of love in the Liberal Party there. 

CASH: - from so far behind, it was always going to be difficult to make huge gains. With the seats gained, the good news is there'll be a more effective state opposition in place, but ultimately, just being out and about, it's the first Monday after a state election where, yes, the Cook Government was returned with a resounding majority. But the clear message to me is, WA is not broken, Canberra is. Michaelia, we need to work with you to protect Western Australia from disastrous decisions of the Albanese Government, just like Roger Cook stood up for WA, we've stood up together against Mr. Albanese on the same issue. 

PETERSON: All right, I would suggest, Patrick, you might disagree with Michaelia Cash's assessment there, just based on political lines, and it may be the victory by WA Labor on Saturday night puts a spring in your step and your federal colleagues heading into a federal election. 

GORMAN: I'm never complacent Oly, I get out there. I was out there doorknocking this morning in a new part of my electorate, out in Stirling, saying hello to people, welcoming them into the Perth electorate. I didn't find a lot of love for Peter Dutton on the doors when I was out doorknocking, I'll tell you that. They weren't chasing me down as I walked away, saying, 'oh, and we want to about that costly nuclear plan.' And the other thing I think is worth knowing for your listeners is that, you hear all of this stuff from the federal Liberals in WA, but let's actually have a look at what they do when they're over in Canberra voting. They voted against the Critical Minerals Tax Incentive. That's about backing WA industry to process more minerals and have more mines here in WA. Labor brought it in. The Liberals voted against it. They voted against having cheaper childcare for Western Australian families. They wanted to go to an election. You know, if Mr. Dutton had had his way, we'd have gone to an election on the tax cuts that we brought in for low and middle income working families. We've had the Liberal Party vote against the initiatives that we brought forward when it came to power bill relief. Now, if you look at what Roger Cook and his team were campaigning on, they're campaigning on power bill relief. That's something that we helped fund. They're campaigning on Free TAFE. Free TAFE is something that we've done in partnership with the Cook Labor Government. They were campaigning on investing more in our public schools. Again, $800 million of extra money from the Commonwealth into WA schools. We're doing these things together, and I'm really proud of the work that we've done. I'm very happy to expose some of the hypocrisy from the Liberals who -

PETERSON: Also interesting though you say doing it together, and you mentioned the Cook Government a few times. Are you hoping that Roger Cook now has the same sort of magic dust that Mark McGowan had when we go to the federal election?

GORMAN: Look, there's no magic dust in politics, Oly, we're all human, and when it comes to politics, we're all politicians as well. So I think you've got to go out there and campaign for every vote. Obviously, I'm really pleased that we've got a good state Labor Government. People trust Labor in this state to do the right thing by this state. We saw that at the federal election in 2022 where Western Australians said, we've seen what actually happens under the Liberals. They run off to the High Court against us, they cut funding for WA Health and all sorts of other things, I think -

PETERSON: Sounds like we're in federal election mode already. 

GORMAN: Well, the federal election has not been called -

PETERSON: It was going to be wasn't it, if there wasn't a cyclone, if Alfred didn't bear down on the Queensland coast?

GORMAN: I think sometime in the next 68 days, Oly, you'll get to go and vote. I'll do the same. Michaelia, you'll get to vote as well. And so will some 1.8 million Western Australians. The timing of the election is obviously up to the Prime Minister, and he's been really open that he's had really important responsibilities as Prime Minister of this country, making sure that flood affected parts of the East Coast in northern New South Wales and Queensland get the support they deserve. And even here in Western Australia, where, you know, we don't have as many flooding events, we did have a cyclone just over a month ago we were preparing for up in the north. But I think people recognise that this is a country that floods, we have terrible bush fires at times. People want their leaders doing the job they were elected to do. Not focused on politics, and that's what the Prime Minister is doing, and it's the right thing, and that's what I expect of any Prime Minister of any political persuasion. 

PETERSON: Question Time with the Michaelia Cash and Patrick Gorman.

CASH: Can I jump in with a few objections?

PETERSON: You can, Senator Cash, go ahead. 

CASH: In relation to our plan for reliable, affordable and cleaner energy, I think -

GORMAN: $600 billion plan.

CASH: - despite everything that Labor has said, in the seat of Collie-Preston at this point in time with the counting, Labor have got 56 per of the two PP. You know, in 2021 they got 73 per cent. The Liberals have currently got 44 per cent, we got 27 per cent in 2021. So in other words, our vote, despite everything Labor has said about our plan to provide access to cheaper, cleaner and affordable energy, our vote there has actually increased by 17 per cent so I think that's very telling. The other thing I'd say is this, when you look at Roger Cook, I mean, he was elected, as we know, overwhelming majority, but you've got to ask yourself why. He has made a number of decisions that were in WA's best interest, whereas Anthony Albanese, and in particular, Tanya Plibersek, are making decisions that will hurt Western Australia. That is why Roger Cook has spoken out against a number of the decisions. The first being the killing off of an entire industry in Western Australia, the live sheep export industry. I mean, that is a decision we've said we'll overturn it. Albanese, Mr. Albanese has turned his back on our farmers. It is a decision which will cost jobs and livelihoods in Western Australia. And Blind Freddie can tell you that if Mr. Albanese is governing with the Australian Greens, it means other rural industries, including live cattle, could be next. What did Roger Cook also stand up in terms of Western Australia for? Nature positive, mining negative. That is exactly what the WA federal Liberals have done. And we know if there is a Labor-Green alliance government in 2025 we expect, in fact we know -

GORMAN: Senator Cash, would you mind if responded to some of that?

CASH: - they will bring back a supercharged version of the Environmental Protection Bill. It'll cripple mining in Western Australia. If you're cripple mining, you cripple our prosperity. But the third one is this, why won't Mr. Albanese and Tanya Plibersek approve extending the life of Karratha's North West Shelf Gas Hub? The Western Australian Government gave the go ahead for the gas plant to continue operating in December of last year. There is still no decision by Anthony Albanese and Tanya Plibersek. Let me make it very clear, I promise this to the people of Western Australia, if we are given the honour of being elected to government, that will be approved by our government on day one. And that is why Roger Cook stood up for Western Australia against Anthony Albanese. WA is not broken, Canberra is broken. And I'm happy to stand up on those issues as well, and protect our prosperity in Western Australia from the disastrous decisions of the Albanese government. 

PETERSON: Alright, Senator Cash, Patrick Gorman, I'll get your response in just a moment, but this is Question time, so if you want to put something to Patrick Gorman and Michaelia Cash, 133 882.

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PETERSON: With Labor's Patrick Gorman and the Liberal's Michaelia Cash this is Question Time. That swing in Collie, Patrick that Michaelia Cash just describes, does that worry you?

GORMAN: I think firstly, Jodie Hanns is an excellent local member in Collie. I've done a fair bit with her over the last year, ever since that nuclear power plant was announced by the Coalition. There is community concern in Collie about that nuclear power plant. I noticed that it wasn't the issue that the Liberal Party were running on. And indeed I'd notice to Senator Cash that Libby Mettam and her team and her Energy Minister said nuclear isn't the right policy for Western Australia. They went to that election opposing nuclear power. So indeed, in the seat of Collie, both the Labor and the Liberal candidate went saying they're not building a nuclear power plant. And what I'd say simply Senator Cash, is this, if the nuclear power plant policy for Collie is so popular, then why won't you explain this $600 billion costly plan? Why won't Mr. Dutton go back down there? Can we get a commitment that Peter Dutton will be back in Collie before the federal election is held?

CASH: [Silence]

PETERSON: Senator Cash?

CASH: Well ultimately, Patrick, I'm not going to play games. The facts speak for themselves. 

GORMAN: That's a no.

CASH: At the last election, Australians trusted Prime Minister Albanese to deliver a $275 reduction in their energy bills. They live out the reality of your failed promises on a daily basis. You have driven families into hardship arrangements with their energy retailers. One of the things our plan does avoid, and this is something that Mr. Albanese has still been unable to explain: the unnecessary overbuilding of infrastructure, the uneconomic solar and wind projects. We will save Australian families and businesses more than, you know, billions each year. We will avoid the need for your overbuild on infrastructure, on in particular pristine landscapes. 

GORMAN: If this plan is so good, let's have Peter Dutton down in Collie to explain it. That's all I'm asking is, can we get a commitment that Peter Dutton will go back to Collie? The last time he was there he ran away. He ran away from people. I just want a commitment that Peter Dutton will go back to Collie before the election is held, so can we see him sometime in March, April, or May.

PETERSON: Let's give Michaelia Cash a chance to answer.

CASH: [inaudible] for the next election. But ultimately, the figures don't lie. Labor's primary vote in Collie-Preston is substantially down despite everything they've said. What Australians want, they want access to reliable and affordable energy, and they live every day, they live every day the renewables pipe dream under Labor, and they know they are hurting and what was promised wasn't delivered. 

PETERSON: Alright, let's go to Gin Gin, Jim's called in, has a question for you. Good afternoon. Go ahead. Jim.

CALLER: Hello? Yeah, how you going Oly,

PETERSON: Good mate. 

CALLER: Mr. Gorman, I'll address this question too, about the housing crisis, is that alright to talk about that? 

PETERSON: Go for it mate.

CALLER: The housing crisis, caused by the population crisis, yet no one will ever talk about that. I mean, I don't see how we can keep bringing people in, left, right and centre and not and provide housing for everybody. I mean, here in Perth, I mean, it's pretty impossible to buy a house. I mean, I don't see how my grandkids are ever going to buy a house, for instance sake. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that, in those sentiments. So I'd like the Mr. Gorman to tell us how he's going to solve all that, and why do we need so many people here in the first place?

GORMAN: Jim, firstly, I want your grandkids to be able to buy a house. It is a fundamental part of the Australian dream that young people in Australia, and particularly in Western Australia, should be able to work hard, whatever they're doing, and be able to get into a home of their own. What we've done since we came to office, because bear in mind that for the ten years before that, the Commonwealth had stopped funding building of new social and affordable homes. We've put in some $32 billion of new investment into building homes, including the Housing Australia Future Fund, all about building more homes, because we've got a supply problem.

PETERSON: But have they been delivered, is anything started being constructed?

GORMAN: Yes, you go down to Pier Street in my electorate -

CASH: No, no homes –

GORMAN: You've got 210 homes being built. You go and look at the projects that are coming online. We've got an announcement in the next few days. There's really good news for Perth. I won't say the number, but it's really good news for Perth. But also one of the things we have had to do is to make sure that we've got the skilled labour that we need. We've seen the state government, who we work with really closely, saying that we need to get more skilled tradies into WA. We've assisted on migration to get those skilled tradies, those chippies, plumbers, electricians and all the rest in, to make sure we can build the houses we need. And also, there's been incentives to have people move from the eastern states over to WA to come and work on building houses. And the other thing, that I mentioned before, which has made a huge difference is our Free TAFE program. 

PETERSON: But we've just became the most unaffordable city in Australia. These are the worst records in terms of the rental vacancy and the like, Patrick?

GORMAN: There are people who are struggling to find secure housing, and I won't pretend that that's not the case. 

PETERSON: So does migration need to be tackled harder, Senator Cash?

CASH: It does absolutely. So to your fabulous caller, you are right. Labor has run the biggest migration program in a generation. That is a fact. It cannot be disputed, with a net increase of almost a million new arrivals in Labor's first two years. The issue we have is there has been no plan for where these new arrivals will live. We have made it very, very clear, you have to reduce migration to sensible levels so that our housing supply can handle it. But you also need to implement, and we will, a two year ban on foreign investors and temporary residents purchasing existing homes in Australia. But quite frankly, you caller has hit the nail on the head. A lot of it is down to Labor running the biggest migration program in a generation, bringing a whole lot of people into this country. We can talk about that as another topic, quite frankly, and in particular, what is happening with social cohesion, etc, but you've got to reduce migration to sensible levels that our housing supply can handle. 

PETERSON: All right, we'll come back to a few more of those issues shortly. I want to go to Scott because he has a very salient question about pensioners and the number of hours they can work. Go ahead, mate.

CALLER: Well, in New Zealand, this is to both of you. In New Zealand, a pensioner can work and not affect their pension. It's about time both governments looked after the pensioners, because without those pensioners, this country wouldn't be where it is today.

PETERSON: Yeah. I mean, Scott makes that point, and we hear it again and again here on 6PR, we have a worker crisis in this country. Why not let them work, Patrick? And they can pay their tax. 

GORMAN: There are allowances for pensioners to be able to work a few hours a week.

PETERSON: They're about to get a $4 allowance boost in a week or two. Four bucks, sorry, four bucks a week. It's bugger all. 

GORMAN: Well, it's good news that inflation is down. Obviously, we know those payments are linked to inflation. When it comes to making sure that pensions can work, there are already allowances for pensioners to be able to hang on to their pension up to two years while working. You know, can keep all of those allowance and things while working for a few hours. Obviously, we want to make sure that that pension is going to people who aren't trying to game the system and make sure that we're giving support to those who need it. The pension is a fundamental right of every Australian who reaches pension age of 67 and is of a certain income and assets test. We've got to make sure that that balance is right, because we don't want to get to a point where we're funding pensions from young people who are working, for people who are using it, maybe who don't need the pension. But for those who are working, for those who are able to add a few hours, there are already a range of incentives. The other thing I'll just point out is, let's not forget that when Michaelia and her team were last in office, one of the things they tried to do was to bring the pension age up to 70. Sixty-seven, they tried to raise it up to 70, make it even harder for people to get that basic support.

PETERSON: Senator Cash, will the Liberal Party consider letting pensioners work more, and therefore pay more tax?

CASH: It's already our policy. I'm very glad to advise your listeners, older Australians and veterans should not have to choose between working some extra hours and keeping their pensions. We have already announced that a Dutton Government will double the work bonus. Will make it easier for retirees, for pensioners, for veterans to stay in the workforce without affecting their pension. And that also, as you know, how many small businesses, I've spoken to them this morning, are struggling with labour shortages. This will also ensure that they have those people who are able to work those additional hours without affecting their pensions. So yes, that is already our policy. Oly, I'm more than happy to send that policy through to your listeners so they know exactly what it is. 

PETERSON: Okay. 

CASH: Good on you to your caller, you hit the nail on the head.

PETERSON: Senator, who would you like to see lead the WA Liberal Party going forward?

CASH: Oh, look, ultimately, Oly, that is a decision for the WA Liberal Party. But I have to say leadership talks are a little premature. And I mean, at this point in time, and we might want to get on to the debacle that is the WA Electoral Commission. There are still nine seats Oly that are being counted. There is a good chance that counting is going to have to continue all week. So at this point in time, we don't even know the makeup of the WA Liberal party room. We're actually ahead in a number of those seats, including in, I think, in Albany, in Kalamunda, in Murray-Wellington. So ultimately, it is way too premature. 

PETERSON: There are reports that you've already had conversations suggesting Basil Zempilas wait until May. Did you have a chat to him?

CASH: When I saw - oh, look, A, not quite sure where those reports come from, B, I was actually with Patrick up at the Legislative Assembly on Channel Seven, and I dropped into our head office very late at night to say thank you to the volunteers. So I was very surprised to see those reports. But ultimately, look, there's still nine seats that are currently being counted, and we've got to work through all of that, and it's up to, ultimately, the WA Liberal Party.

PETERSON: All right, we've run out of time for today's Question Time. I will be talking to Shane Love next about the WA Electoral Commission, and what happened on Saturday. I appreciate your time Senator Cash and Patrick Gorman, thank you very much. 

GORMAN: Thank you Oly.