Radio interview - ABC Radio Canberra Breakfast

Subjects: The Australian Public Service Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CALD) Employment Strategy; Making the Australian Public Service more inclusive.

ADAM SHIRLEY, HOST: Patrick Gorman, is a Labor MP and Assistant Minister for the Public Service and is with us this morning. Patrick Gorman, a very good morning to you.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: And good morning to you, Adam. Good morning to your listeners.

SHIRLEY: Assistant Minister, through your time in any public service role, how often have you come across or witnessed racism?

GORMAN: I've got to say, Adam, that I did find some of the findings of this report that we're talking about today quite confronting, because it hasn't been my experience. I've actually seen a range of the workplaces that you see in political life, I actually see some of the best of the public service being a welcoming workplace. But obviously, what we've got in the report that's been released by myself and Minister Gallagher, is the lived experience of culturally and linguistically diverse employees in the public service telling us that they are reporting higher levels of discrimination, racism. This is completely unacceptable. That's why we're trying to take steps to stop that experience occuring to give us the sort of public service that all Australians deserve.

SHIRLEY: Do you think perhaps, that it's instructive that you yourself have not witnessed any incidents like this, that that might, in fact, demonstrate how baked in and perhaps underhanded this sort of thing can be?

GORMAN: I think that what you see is that, and we see this in the report, is that some of these forms of discrimination or racism that are being reported to us are not explicit, are not necessarily done when a Minister or a Member of Parliament is in the department. So of course, that's why we need to do the big piece of cultural change across the public service to firstly acknowledge that we have a problem. And I acknowledge we have a problem. That's the one thing I want your listeners to know.

SHIRLEY: I know that the Senate is not where you practition your work. You're in the House of Reps, but reflecting on how open it can be if for instance, you've got Pauline Hanson, One Nation Senator, telling Mehreen Faruqi, who we spoke with before eight o'clock, to go home, under parliamentary privilege.

GORMAN: I'd say you asked me specifically about work in the public service, but if I was to think about--

SHIRLEY: Well Ministers and Senators are working in the public service, are they not?

GORMAN: So I think I was referring to people employed under the Public Service Act. That's obviously the cohort that we're responsible for, with this particular strategy. If I think about the work that many MPs do, you do come across, far too often, instances of racism and discrimination. I think Senator Faruqi has obviously expressed some very clear disappointment at her treatment. And I think we've all got an important role to play.

SHIRLEY: Do you reckon Senator Faruqi as a representative of New South Wales, and someone who works within the public service, has a fair case to say she's directly experienced racism in the example that I raised?

GORMAN: And she would not be the only Member of Parliament who experiences racism on a regular basis.

SHIRLEY: I mean, I think about Linda Burney on your side of politics, I think about others. Malarndirri McCarthy through things like, I guess, the referendum on the Voice to Parliament. Does that then filter down through elements of the public service when it seems to happen through all those levels of government? And is it in a way, an example, as bad as that is, to others in the public service?

GORMAN: I think what we're trying to do is say, well, actually, the public service should set the example. What we talk about, myself, Minister Gallagher, and the Prime Minister, is about saying the public service should be a model employer. And that's actually what we're doing. We're taking in this report that we've released today, the consultation that we're currently undertaking with both public servants and your broader listenership, and any Australia is we're saying, we've got a problem. We accept our responsibility to be a model employer. Where we currently are is not good enough. If I look at one of what I think is the most striking pieces in this report is that you've got quite good cultural and linguistic diversity in the public service. The public service one to six levels, but then we get into the Senior Executive Service, it really drops off. That's not good enough, because it kind of goes back to your point as well, which is you need to have people in senior positions, we have people in senior positions, we've just talked about a few of them in the political leadership. But we need to have more of those senior people in the public service leadership to show that our public service does look like the rest of Australia. And at the moment, it doesn't. And we're trying to take some really concrete steps to get there.

SHIRLEY: Yeah, the commission report identifies what you've just highlighted. So to get senior leaders who have diverse backgrounds into those roles, and leading those teams, what are some clear strategies that aren't being used, that you believe should be used?

GORMAN: Obviously, I don't want to preempt the outcome of the consultation, it's really important to me that we listen to culturally and linguistically diverse workforce that is in the public service, who've experienced this and get their feedback on what they think will be the best path forward, a range of suggestions are put into the draft report, which says, maybe we need more diversity in our HR team, maybe we need to make sure we're doing more when it comes to how the APS hires, maybe we need to be putting more weighting on different forms of experience, in addition to formal learning and qualifications. There's also talk about whether we need to be doing better at identifying career pathways for culturally and linguistically diverse members of the public service. So we're looking at all those things. And I really, I know you've got a lot of public servants who listen to your program on their drive into work. I really encourage all of them when they get to their desk this morning, log on to that Australian Public Service Commission website, it's a very simple survey that they can do. Give us your thoughts on how we get this right. Because, again, we heard from over 1000 APS employees, as too much of that feedback was very clear that we aren't doing well enough. That's got to change. And that's why we're out for consultation.

SHIRLEY: Patrick Gorman is who you're hearing from, he's the Assistant Minister for the Public Service. Patrick Gorman MP, our guest on ABC Radio Canberra, this text simply says, my son works for the ACT government, has ADHD and gets bullied at work, nothing ever changes. Thank you, Mark, talking the ACT government perspective there. Patrick Gorman with regards to diversity of background, culture, also, other elements of diversity. Is this something you're also seeing that needs work on and needs to be part of this discussion?

GORMAN: Yes, it is. This is one part of a range of streams of work that cover off on diversity, including people with disability, including First Nations employees. We recognize that again, what's the goal? What should the Australian public expect of the public service? They should expect the public service is a model employer. How do we get there? Well, we do it by listening, we do it by working with these communities that we haven't always done so well on. And we also do it by looking at where the public service has had great success. One of the things that always gives me joy when I go into, whether it be the APSC, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet or other government agencies, is the LGBTQI+ networks that have been built within the public service, have made it a more inclusive workplace for those employees. I look at what we've done in terms of, we've still got a gap, but in terms of working to close the gender pay gap, another success story. And I want what we're going to do when it comes to culturally and linguistically diverse employment in the APS, I want that to become another success story.

SHIRLEY: And what about neurodiversity as well, in including some of those very bright, intelligent people as leaders, not just making up the numbers?

GORMAN: It's as simple as this, a public service that looks like the Australian community at large. There's a large neurodiverse workforce within the public service. We're very fortunate that we've got all of those talents available to us. But whatever cohort, Adam, you want to throw at me, the reality is we want the APS to be a model employer. And we want to have a public service that reflects the Australian people so that we get the best results when it comes to policy and service delivery. That's what it's all about.

SHIRLEY: And we'll see what some of those suggestions are that come in to the Commission right up until the 15th of December. We do appreciate your time today, Assistant Minister, thank you for your time.