Transcript - Sky News with Tom Connell - Monday, 28 March 2022
TOM CONNELL, HOST: Time to bring in our political panel ahead of, of course, tomorrow's budget, from the Labor Party, Patrick Gorman, from the Government, Jason Falinski. And Patrick, of course, gets the first question for being here in the studio. That is always the case when you're in Canberra, but I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing, we'll find out in a moment. Jason can't hear anything. Well, there you go. We'll fix that problem, Jason, you can't hear me, but when you're watching this back later …
JASON FALINSKI, LIBERAL MP: It is funny. I came into Macquarie Park so I could get better sound. I can't hear either of you.
CONNELL: You can't hear. Excellent. Good. It's going well. It's going very well. We'll fix it out. We'll fix it up, I'm sure. Patrick, fuel excise, the cuts to the fuel excise. What do you think it should be, to give motorists real relief while not hitting the budget?
PATRICK GORMAN, SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Well, it's not my job to write Josh Frydenberg's budget. We will see tomorrow what actual numbers he comes out with. It's important that we see, of course, the full details of what is the Government's cost of living plan. We've gone for nine years, this government telling us there are no challenges with cost of living, and then on the eve of a Budget, eve of an Election, sorry, for a Budget that they have brought forward so they can push the Election later, we're going to see his plan. Obviously, Labor has said we welcome cost of living relief for Australians. But I want to see the full package, because if it's just a sandwich and milkshake cut on fuel excise and nothing else, I don't think that's enough for working families.
CONNELL: Right. But the fuel excise is pretty simple. We know what it costs the Government each year. We know how much it adds to a tank of petrol. So surely you can have a view on what level it should be? Should the whole thing go for six months, given how much prices have spiked?
GORMAN: As I said, I'm not in the business of doing the Treasurer's homework for him.
CONNELL: No, but I'm not asking you to. I'm saying what it should be. What do you think it should be?
GORMAN: We'll wait to see what's in the Budget tomorrow. What I do think, if you want my tip on what the Government should do for cost-of-living relief for Australian families, what the Government should do is copy Labor's childcare policy. That will get more people into the workforce, it'll cut huge bills for families who are struggling with those childcare costs. It'll be a big boost for our economy. If you want my hot tip, what the Treasurer should be doing tomorrow night, he should be announcing Labor's childcare policy.
CONNELL: I'm sure that's what he'll do. “I announce Labor's childcare policy tonight”. Jason, I think we've got it back.
FALINSKI: I'm back. Bigger and better than ever!
CONNELL: Nice. How many how many voters can you buy off with a little fuel excise cut for a few months?
FALINSKI: It's not about buying off voters. It's about making the lives of working families easier and better. I mean, prices have spiked because of the conflict in Ukraine. It's appropriate, I think, at this point in time for the Government to take some temporary action to help out families that are doing it tough at the moment. And that's what we're doing tomorrow.
CONNELL: Okay. So that's a cost of living relief of some sort. We've just had Jason announce it, so that's good. You want to say how much?
FALINSKI: Yes, it is. No, I have no idea. So, I could announce it, but it'd be the wrong number.
CONNELL: Have a go.
FALINSKI: Let's say seven cents.
CONNELL: Oh, very generous.
FALINSKI: I know I am.
CONNELL: I know things are tough in a Falinski Government, you know, next time they're putting the odds up and wherever they put them on the next leader, not sure that will help.
FALINSKI: Maybe if you and Pat stop betting on me, the odds will stop going in.
CONNELL: Maybe. What other cost of living, is that it for the cost-of-living measures tomorrow in the Budget?
FALINSKI: Oh mate, I don't know is the answer. I mean I can't speculate on what is in the Budget.
CONNELL: Should there be more?
FALINSKI: Sorry?
CONNELL: Should there be more?
FALINSKI: Look, this Government has a track record over the last nine years of delivering for working families and young Australians, so that they can live better lives in Australia. And we're about making people's lives better. That's what we've always done, for the last nine years, and we'll keep doing that. You know, ultimately what this is about is about ensuring that we're growing real wages. We're making giving people access to better services, funding them appropriately. And we've done that for the last nine years. We've got a record of doing that. So that's what we'll continue to do. I mean, Tom, coming out of COVID, we had the lowest death rates, the highest vaccination rates, the lowest unemployment rates, the highest growth rates, lowest level of debt. Our inflation rate is less than half of that of the United States and most of Western Europe.
CONNELL: Okay.
FALINSKI: We're doing pretty well in Australia at the moment.
CONNELL: Wage growth is the missing ingredient. Let me ask you …
FALINSKI: Real wage growth is a missing ingredient. That's true.
CONNELL: Yeah, well, that's the relevant one because you've got to balance against what you're paying for. Patrick, you mentioned cost-
FALINSKI: You might want to tell Anthony Albanese that because he doesn't seem to understand what real wage growth is. But I'll leave that to you next time you're interviewing him.
CONNELL: Patrick, cost of living. So, fuel excise, there's going to be something, both parties are on board with that. Childcare, we know Labor's got its policy. Is there anything else? There's a lot of other things we buy. Is there anything else Labor would specifically offer on cost of living?
GORMAN: We've obviously put out our Powering Australia plan, which is about bringing power bills down and giving Australia the energy security that we need for the next decade and more. And then the other big question is what are we going to do about getting wages growing again …
CONNELL: But just quickly, on what things cost. You don't want to be unrealistic with voters, you can't affect the cost of a loaf of bread or milk, or whatever it might be, realistically, can you?
GORMAN: You would have seen that Anthony Albanese, just a few days ago, put out another policy about increasing housing affordability in the regions, that will be good for people in the regions of Australia where housing costs have gone up.
CONNELL: It doesn't that doesn't change the price of a house. That means you can get in with a deposit or a different thing.
GORMAN: Yep. But we know that giving people that economic security of getting them into a home is something that helps with their long-term cost of living pressures. So, all of these things, what can be done as a Federal Government are things that need to be discussed. In terms of the challenges that Australia faces right now, I think no one can solve every single cost of living pressure that every single family faces. We've got to be realistic about that. But Labor will continue to put out policies over the next two months as we head towards the Federal Election. People will know where we stand on many of these questions.
CONNELL: But just to be really realistic with voters. So, let's say Labor get elected, the next month, fuel excise will probably be the same, we'll see what the Government does. Childcare, you'll have a slightly better policy depending on how many.
GORMAN: But we will have a better policy.
FALINSKI: No, you don't.
GORMAN: We do have a better policy.
CONNELL: You're in there spending a bit more. Well, I'll pull up the graphs next time we're on. We'll see who's better off and where. But that's the end of the road, there's no other advantage for a voter a month after the election. Is that fair to say?
GORMAN: Voters aren't voting right now, Tom. They're going to be voting whenever the Prime Minister finally sets an election date, probably the 14th of May. So, there's a bit of time between now and then for all of those plans to come out. Anthony Albanese will have more to say on Thursday night with the Budget Reply. And as frustrating as it is for you Tom, it's frustrating for all of us. Even Jason doesn't know what's in the budget tomorrow night. We've got to wait and see what this sort of like mini election campaign launch for Josh Frydenberg and Scott Morrison has, in tomorrow night's early Budget. That'll give us a bit of an idea.
CONNELL: Any joy out of the Housing Affordability Inquiry? Equity out of Super to help people get a deposit. It seems the same principle as other government schemes, it's about the deposit.
FALINSKI: It's more about home ownership than housing affordability. But you're right. I mean, ultimately what we did say on Super was that, until you fix the supply issue, you're going to continue to see house prices increase at a greater rate than inflation. And one of the problems that I have with Anthony Albanese's approach to buying a house in regional areas is, what do you do in places like Coffs Harbour that have run out of zoned land? What do you do in places like the Pilbara that has more land than flies? But the Indigenous communities are saying, well, the council won't release any land and we have a housing crisis with housing shortage and overcrowded houses. Until we actually fix the underlying problem, that's what I hope to see in the Budget. So, I mean, there have been some tantalising hints about some of the stuff that the government wants to do to help people get into a home for the first time. But home ownership matters. I mean, it really does matter.
CONNELL: Okay.
FALINSKI: And, yes, sorry, Tom.
CONNELL: No, that's alright, we're just a little bit short on time, but it sounds like you're waiting for the Budget like the rest of us. I tell you what, if you're really happy with the outcomes, and I'm not sure what you can say, so wear a blue tie if you feel as though they've really helped you out. And if you're furious at all the ideas they haven't picked up, you can wear a red tie. So, viewers, tune in. Whatever Jason says, I notice it's quite red today, the tie, with a bit of blue. So don't confuse us. They're the messages you can send to the higher ups.
FALINSKI: Confuse you, Tom, that it's very hard.
CONNELL: I'm not sure what to make of that. Patrick, on that, Labor's saying the big issue is getting affordability in terms of getting that deposit, that's the hard thing to do. So, what about the idea out of that inquiry Jason led on accessing, not pulling out Super, but the equity from Super to be able to get a deposit. What's wrong with that idea?
GORMAN: Well, I mean, I commend Jason's ongoing advocacy for increasing housing affordability. I do know that some of his criticism just then was criticism of his own government's policies, in terms of not helping in housing affordability in a range of areas. I'll be honest, I haven't read …
FALINSKI: Oh my God. I am insulted. I listen to your speeches, for God's sake. You can't even read one of my reports!
GORMAN: Send a signed copy to my office, and I'll have a read.
CONNELL: Using Superannuation, using the equity out of it, not pulling it out, but just the equity to be able to help stump up a deposit. Is there anything on first glance you have an issue with on that?
GORMAN: On first glance, the issue I have is that this Government seems to have about 20 different ideas to spend superannuation spending.
CONNELL: It's not spending it.
GORMAN: And it's standing in the way of growing superannuation.
FALINSKI: No, no. It wouldn't do that, Patrick. It wouldn't do that.
GORMAN: It's equity.
FALINSKI: Yeah, it's just equity.
GORMAN: Yeah. I understand how that policy works in terms of providing certainty for people who then go to banks …
CONNELL: Is it a better idea than pulling it out? Is equity better than just pulling it out?
GORMAN: Well, I mean, under this Government, they want you to pull out your superannuation because there was a global pandemic, they want you to pull out your superannuation, because you're escaping domestic violence-
FALINSKI: This isn't about pulling it out, you don't have to pull it out. So, this idea, this you don't have to pull it out. It can sit in your Super.
CONNELL: Is using equity a better idea than having to withdraw suprt, Patrick?
GORMAN: Well, I just worry about this Government wanting to spend superannuation on so many different things.
CONNELL: Don't want to take that small step and say it's a better idea than withdrawing?
GORMAN: I'll leave it at this.
FALINSKI: Reach out, Patrick.
GORMAN: Jason Falinski's ideas are generally a lot better than the ideas that we see from Tim Wilson, Josh Frydenberg, and many more.
FALINSKI: Oh, that's going on a social media tile.
CONNELL: I think it'll be in a few WhatsApp groups as well. Look, we've got to go, we're well over time. I think we'll see you both here in the building next week, pre-election-
FALINSKI: No, no. Tomorrow.
CONNELL: Not in the building, tomorrow on the segment, Jason.
GORMAN: Oh, sorry.
CONNELL: Yeah. Okay. Anyway, Jason, Pat, thank you. It's been interesting, as usual.