Transcript - Television Transcript - ABC Afternoon Briefing - Thursday, 17 March 2022

GREG JENNETT, HOST: Time now for our political panel. Liberal MP, Trent Zimmerman joining us from Sydney, and Labor MP Patrick Gorman is in Perth. Trent, I'm going to start with you because we are still wrestling a few technical issues around Pat Gorman over in the West.

TRENT ZIMMERMAN, LIBERAL MP: He’s probably in the pub!

JENNETT: Well, I was about to go there. Your leader, Scott Morrison, has come over with a big bag of cash, stood alongside Mark McGowan, and all seems hunky-dory between those two. What's he trying to do, bask in some of the exuded glory that comes from Mark McGowan these days?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, no, I think it actually reflects that fact that there’s been, during the course of the Perth City Deal, and this is an extension of it, it is not the first time it has been announced in terms of the concept of the city deal, there is already over $1 billion there, but it just shows the collaboration that’s happening with these City Deals, and often more broadly with state governments of all political colours. So today's announcement I'm sure will be welcomed by Perth residents, because it will provide additional funding to allow the Edith Cowan project to be completed. There’s also some more transport funding in there for the Swan River It is part of a broader package that’s already underway, which will be a major boost for everything from transport to cultural facilities. One of the things I really like about the Perth City Deal is the support for the Aboriginal Cultural Centre which will ensure that Aboriginal culture in Western Australia is properly represented in its capital city.

JENNETT: So a big investment in urban renewal, granted, but if you actually look at some of the Prime Minister's travels there, big ticket announcements, there is something decidedly defensive about the campaigning stance being adopted. You would have to think that the Liberal Party in WA was at a high-water mark in 2019, and it is all down from here. Some people are actually speculating losses, you could count up to five, six, worst case. But at least three, right on the line there, in a badly damaged state for the Liberal Party.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, the Member for North Sydney is probably not the best person to ask about the political mood in Western Australia, which, even at the best of times is a long way away, but more recently has been quite isolated from the rest of us. In fact, our Members of Parliament have been so frequently stuck over there as well. I think the broader point is that every election these days is highly competitive, every seat is highly competitive. The old typification of ‘safe seats’ are ‘not-safe seats’ is becoming redundant, and all of us from an election point of view will take every one of those contests very seriously.

JENNETT: Especially when you start laying in the pandemic and all the overhaul of conventional political wisdom that comes with that. Simon Birmingham, we were discussing a little earlier with him, seems to be acknowledging in the context of the South Australian election that this perceived sensibility around incumbency being a rock-solid platform to go to an election campaign on no longer exists. It might have for Mark McGowan, doesn't seem to for Steven Marshall. I’m going to put to you, Trent, that it doesn't for the Morrison Government either these days.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, I come back to the point I just made, I think it will be a very close and highly competitive election in seats across the country. Anyone that has a crystal ball trying to predict the outcome now I think is not someone whose advice you should rely on. I think it is going to be a very tight election and we won't really know what the outcome is until election night.

JENNETT: It is going to be tight. Why don't we welcome Pat Gorman in at this point, Trent Zimmerman was suggesting, while you overcame some technical difficulties there, Pat, that you might have been off celebrating the City Deal. The Prime Minister has come over and showered you with cash. How do you square that with conventional wisdom that says he should have been, you know, campaigning locally in must-hold seats? Instead, he is standing up with your Premier.

PATRICK GORMAN, SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Well, it is good to see that Scott Morrison has finally got back to Western Australia. Since he was last here, he has called Western Australians cave people, he has paid $1 million of Clive Palmer’s court costs and stood silently as Barnaby Joyce compared Western Australia to North Korea, so he does have a lot of work to do on his annual apology to Western Australia, which seems to be a bit of a habit. Of course, I welcome the investment in the Perth City Deal. This is a project that is not Scott Morrison's baby, this was Malcolm Turnbull's baby from way back in 2016. We are still waiting for the projects, a bit more money to get them finished as a good thing, but...

JENNETT: Something cheeky do you think, Pat Gorman? Standing alongside a Labor Premier at the top of his powers right now. Do you smell a bit of a rat?

GORMAN: I felt sorry for Mark McGowan today, he has to do his job as Premier of Western Australia, and part of the job means he has to stand next to whoever happens to be the Prime Minister of the day when there are major joint federal-state commitments. Although my guess is it is probably the last time we will see Premier McGowan and Prime Minister Morrison standing together this side of the election.

JENNETT: Really? Okay. We might measure that one off, run a ruler over that in the campaign still to come. I don't think you could preclude, could you, Trent, the idea that Scott Morrison will have to go back there at least a couple of days in the course of the campaign, such as the importance of three, four, five seats in the West?

ZIMMERMAN: I'm sure that is right, he will be back in Perth, I have no doubt. As I said at the outset, which Patrick may not have heard, I think there will be more opportunities for us to collaborate with governments, including Western Australian Government, where there is a good outcome for the people of those states. That is what a good Federal Government does and what a good State Government does.

JENNETT: It has been a pretty formidable arsenal that the Prime Minister unleashed in the West, Patrick Gorman. $4.3 billion one day for a naval dry dock and now the City Deal. If that stuff works, it's a powerful precursor to what might be stored up in the Budget. How do you counter that? What you do, switch it down to, I won't use the word pork barrelling, but marginal seat campaigning, with a particular emphasis on roads and parks, and the sorts of things that your party has been very active in doing of late?

GORMAN: We make no apologies for investing in it communities and suggesting ideas that we’ll invest in communities all across Australia. But what I know that West Australian's can do pretty well is they can sense desperation. What I have seen in the Prime Minister's precampaign launch of the West is that he seems a bit desperate. There will be many more election announcements on both sides. My view, and let’s be honest, the Prime Minister brought his Budget forward two months, but these are election commitments he is making, they are pre-election commitments. He has moved the entire machinery of government around so that he can come here and say, “oh no, these are in the Budget”. What West Australians know is that so is that many of these projects, he is only committing to and the final days before he runs to the Governor-General to issue the writs for an election.

JENNETT: What else, what else might be in a kit bag, Trent? we are all feeling fuel price pain at the moment. It is less clear at this end of the week that some sort of excise reduction might be in the pot for the Budget. What did you think when that one started to gain some momentum earlier this week? Good policy or to use Pat's word, desperation?

ZIMMERMAN: I think to use the usual language at this time of the season, it would be unhelpful for me to speculate about what is going to be announced in the Budget, I will not do that.

JENNETT: That is the remedy but the problem is real, isn't it?

ZIMMERMAN: It is. And I have a staff member who drives from the Central Coast to my office every day. He was telling me he is trying to work out where all his money is going, he realised he was going into his fuel tank. So there is that pressure that so many people across our community are facing. Of course, we are seeing that largely in terms of petrol pricing as a consequence of the rightful action that the democratic community is taking to punish Russia for its actions in Ukraine. I think most Australians understand that, but that doesn't alleviate the pain that they will be feeling at the bowser.

JENNETT: I'm going to ask you, Patrick Gorman, about fuel and about sanctions flowing from the Ukraine-Russia war. You would support, I imagine, if the Government threw it out on the table in the Budget, some sort of fuel excise relief, or are you prepared to sound off against that right now?

GORMAN: We will see what they have in the Budget. When it comes to cost of living pressures, fuel is just the latest in a long run of things that have really squeezed the budgets of households in my electorate, and across Western Australia. What we know is that this government did nothing as childcare fees went up 39 per cent on their watch. This Government increased university fees 113 per cent. I don't believe, and we’re just rushing now at election time, if they come up with a few trinkets here or there, they don't have a full or comprehensive plan to act on cost of living. The only thing we have seen the Government commit to is a cut on draught beer.

JENNETT: Have they? I'm not sure they have. That was another floated idea that might have sunk by the end of the week.

GORMAN: I was going to give them credit for having something, but it turned out they have nothing.

JENNETT: I think you might find that is washed away.

ZIMMERMAN: You have to wait a week and a half, Patrick, and you can find out.

GORMAN: I am a very patient man, Trent.

ZIMMERMAN: Always.

JENNETT: Being a West Australian in a state so reliant on iron ore, where you struck at all when the Prime Minister stood up and again echoed the words of Joe Biden and others saying that if necessary, if China does not take a suffer stand against Russia, we would join a raft of other countries ponying up for sanctions against China? That would send a shiver down the spine, I imagine, of the iron ore miners, which are one of the last groups is not affected heavily so far by China's trade slapped down on Australia.

GORMAN: I don’t believe that, when it comes to these important foreign policy questions, that we should in any way be afraid of acting in our national interest. That means that the Government, and indeed where they can, they should consult with the Opposition on these matters, but the Government needs to have a full spectrum of policy options available to them. I understand why the Prime Minister would not rule anything out on this. These are serious questions, and this goes to the absolute fundamentals of what Australia is. We are a democracy who stand up for our values on the international stage. So, I understand what is behind that. This is a very difficult time for the world.

JENNETT: It sure is.

GORMAN: At the moment, people are paying the price. In terms of what is happening, as we discussed fuel prices, it is not just the situation in Ukraine that has driven those increases.

JENNETT: But action at any price, Trent Zimmerman? I am just imagining China retaliating in full measure if the West were to move on it. This would be a very substantial developments in global affairs, wouldn't it?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, we have already seen Australia stand up for human rights and democratic values in our region, including in relation to China, it has come at a price. I think Patrick's point was dead right. It is important that we not be cowered in our efforts to ban democratic values, which we regard as important for Australia, but more importantly regard as the inherent rights of any citizen in their native land. We have an obligation to defend the rights of people whether they are here or overseas, in that regard.

JENNETT: Alright, one last one just quickly Trent. Discuss or don't discuss matters to do with Senator Kitching and internal trouble in the Labor Party? It seems to have hit a raw nerve with some in the ALP. Do you think this is fair and above board have out in the open or disrespectful right now?

ZIMMERMAN: To be honest, Greg, I find it really difficult because, I take the point that Richard Marles made today that the funeral is even yet to happen, I feel so desperately for her family, and I’m one of those Coalition members, actually initially through this program, who got to know Kimberley Kitching quite well and she was such an incredible, beautiful person. We should reflect on her significant contribution to the Senate and to politics. I think to some degree we have to be guided a little bit by what the family want. But unfortunately, we are reaching the stage, particularly with Andrew Probyn's commentary revelations today, I think these are legitimate matters for the media to be investigating and exploring. We just have to do it sensitively and find a way through which doesn't add layer upon layer of grief to Kimberley’s family. There is not a playbook that tells you how to do that, I know. They are serious issues and there will be an investigation at some stage, but let’s just be a little bit sensitive about it.

JENNETT: Very sensitive, and I am sure you would respect that position, very briefly and finally, Pat? But I’m imagining yours is like everyone else’s, leave it be for now, is that right?

GORMAN: Look, it is such an awful situation what has happened with Kimberley Kitching. I think at the moment we all just miss her. I served on the Foreign Affairs, Defence, and Trade Committee with her, obviously on a range of things in caucus. I have loved reading the colour of her life, and the things that she has achieved and a celebration of that. Obviously, I don't know any further detail than what I have read on these other things, but I think Trent said it very well. Respect the family's wishes, and obviously there is a funeral on Monday. It is a tough time for everyone in Federal Parliament, losing a fellow member.

JENNETT: On that note, thank you for your observations, Patrick Gorman and Trent Zimmerman. We will speak to both of you again before too long. They you for joining us.