Transcript - ABC - Thursday, 2 September

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC CAPITAL HILL
THURSDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2021

SUBJECTS: Hospital Capacity; Vaccination of Children; National Plan; Vaccination rates of Indigenous Australians.

JADE MACMILLIAN HOST: Well, it's time now for our political panel. I'm joined by Nationals MP Anne Webster and Labor's Patrick Gorman. Welcome to both of you.

ANNE WEBSTER, NATIONALS MP: Thank you.

PATRICK GORMAN, SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA:Thanks for having us on the program.

MACMILLIAN: Let's start with the COVID-19 national reopening plan. We've heard from the AMA today, It's concerns that state hospital systems just aren't ready. Anne Webster, are they valid concerns, in your view?

WEBSTER: Look, it's important that the hospitals can manage whatever happens once we do open up the point about opening up, of course, at 70 and 80 percent double dose means that less people will be sick, there will be less hospitalisations, there will certainly be less in ICU and requiring that intensive treatment. So, look, we must open up. We can't stay closed forever. It's hurting so many people.

MACMILLIAN: Are you concerned, though, about capacity at the moment? Does there need to be a lot more work done?

WEBSTER: Well, workforce, I mean, I'm from a regional setting. So workforce is always a key issue for us and across every hospital in Mallee, where I have the privilege of being the representative. So workforce is something that is constantly on my mind to make sure that our regions have what they need. In terms of the Melbourne and Sydney and Brisbane, the centres that are much larger and take of the majority of our very sick, it is up to the states to know what they're in, and to be reporting that back to the Prime Minister.

MACMILLIAN: Patrick Gorman, Western Australia has postponed some elective surgery without a COVID outbreak in that state. Is that acceptable? What has gone wrong there?

GORMAN: Well, these things, unfortunately, are necessary from time to time, we've seen that while here in Western Australia, while we've been very fortunate with COVID, prevention of COVID outbreaks. There has been a necessity to reschedule some appointments. And some of that has come from the fact that there were appointments deferred from last year when we did go into a more serious shutdown, as the entire nation did.

What I do find amazing at a national level, though, is that we don't have a good idea of what the capacity of our hospital system has to cope with what happens when we eventually do reopen our economies, when we do connect our states and eventually connect internationally. To not know that, to not have even asked that question after 18 months, I think is a really embarrassing fact for the Federal Health Minister.

MACMILLIAN: Should West Australians be concerned at this stage about that state's capacity to cope with a COVID-19 outbreak, given the state of the system at the moment without one?

GORMAN: Well, what we've seen from the WA Health Minister and the Director-General of the Department of Health is that they assure us that there is capacity for the potential of an outbreak. But of course, Western Australia has been so successful in preventing those outbreaks. And that's what I think is causing the tension of this whole discussion at the moment, is that the best way to prepare your health system is to avoid having people getting critically ill with COVID. That's what we should be aspiring to. Now, the big path to that is to make sure everyone gets vaccinated. But at the moment, that's a very slow process, because seeing still people are still waiting for their first appointment because we didn't have enough vaccines in the first place.

MACMILLIAN: Anne Webster, the Queensland Premier has said that children under the age of 12 in her state would be vulnerable if Queensland opens up because they can't get vaccinated. Do you understand that some parents might share those concerns and might perhaps not want the borders to come down?

WEBSTER: Look, I think the issue here is that we can't live under a cloud of fear at all times. There is nowhere in the world that is vaccinating children under the age of 12 years old. We need to take that seriously, there are trials being done in other countries, not in Australia. And once that reporting comes back, then we will inevitably, the TGA and the ATAGI, the ATAGI will be looking at all of that data and making a decision. At the moment, as Paul Kelly said 10 minutes ago, the rate of infection and serious consequences of infection in young children is extremely low. 0.1 percent of children who get sick end up in ICU. So, you know, it's serious, we don't want that to happen, I certainly don't want my grandchildren getting COVID. But I think we need to take heart from both the health and wellbeing of our under 12 year olds, and the fact that we need to have very good reason to be giving the jab to where there's no completed trial.

MACMILLIAN: Patrick Gorman, given those statistics that Paul Kelly just ran through, is the Queensland Premier fear mongering here?

GORMAN: Well, I think it's pretty natural as humans, we've just been, we've we're living through this awful pandemic where we have seen mass death around the world, some 4.5 million people have died. I think it's pretty natural that people want to go slowly and carefully. We still have some ambiguity about what's happening in terms of the supply of vaccines for 12 to 15 year olds. That needs to be properly resolved. And I know that parents I talk to are asking these questions.

So I think it's reasonable people ask those questions and that we have good quality health advice and clear communication from our health experts. What,'s got states like Western Australia and Queensland through these very difficult years, has been listening to the health advice, and I'll always say I'll very happily listen to Professor Kelly, I back the national plan, but you can't just dismiss these concerns that some people have.

We've got to talk through it as a community. And when I talk through it as a community, we've also got to talk to kids. We've got to make sure that young people are involved in this discussion and they understand why mum and dad are getting vaccinated and why they're not and why they're going to be okay in that scenario. I remember as a kid, I was a terrible asthmatic as a kid. I was in and out of emergency regularly. Respiratory illnesses and kids are pretty horrible and frightening. So let's just make sure that we actually talk to children, explain to them how it is different, consult with them. And I think that's the way through over the next few months.

Fortunately, we're not talking about opening up in the next few months here in the West, it's not something it's going to happen until we get to those stronger levels of vaccination, which, as I said before, is taking a little longer than it should have. So let's use that time to explain to children why it is, because they're vaccinated all the time. You know, my nine month old, she's had more vaccinations in the last year than anyone. Just so it's it's a bit hard for them as children to understand why they're not getting vaccinated. We need to make sure we bring them along that journey and treat them as independent humans too, give them the information they need and talk to parents so they understand why it is that we're not vaccinating under 12's.

MACMILLIAN: Just on the national plan. Patrick Gorman, what rate do you think that WA should be bringing down its border restrictions? What vaccination rate, I mean?

GORMAN: Well, I mean, the national plan doesn't explicitly mention border restrictions. It talks about a range of restrictions lifting over time. I want to see us, as quick as possible, get to that 80 percent double dose vaccination. Now, what we know is that if someone has AstraZeneca today, they're not vaccinated, fully vaccinated until the 9th of December. So let's just not rush these things. But I'd like to see Western Australia up in the high 80s, and I particularly like to say vulnerable communities, elderly, those in aged care, those who have other health conditions, and indeed Indigenous Australians up in the high 80s as well.

MACMILLIAN: Anne Webster, are you concerned about vaccination rates in regional areas, including in your own electorate?

WEBSTER: In my electorate, I have 12 shires and 10 out of the 12 shires are actually ahead of the national first dose rate, and certainly moving up, and some of them are well and truly above the national rate as well. In our larger centres, such as Mildura, where I am, and Swan Hill, it's slightly behind. But I think we need to remember that Pfizer hasn't been available and certainly not available to those just over 16 until very recently. And Mildura, for example, has over 30 percent of the population is under 30. So, you know, all things considered, I think that the regional community broadly across Mallee is actually tracking very well.

MACMILLIAN: Are there still challenges that you see in rolling out vaccines in regional areas and how do we improve those now?

WEBSTER: Yeah, look, I think that there are one of those is workforce, as I said earlier. Health workforce is a critical issue across Mallee, and it's I know it's a critical issue across many regional areas. It's why the Coalition is looking at creative ways of being able to deliver health workforce across those, in markets. In terms of our Indigenous communities, Minister Wyatt was saying yesterday that Ausmat and ADF will be going out to the west of New South Wales, that there's been hesitancy amongst Indigenous folk and that there is some straight talking going on to ensure that the facts are known. And I think that that's the big deal. I have people writing to my, writing to me every day, some who are anti-vaccine passports, some who are anti-vaccine, those who say they want vaccines, but they're under 12. We're a democracy. People have a right to their view. But we do have sound health advice. And I continually put people on to the TGA and the ATAGI website for serious straight talking. And that's what we need to listen to.

MACMILLIAN: Just finally, Patrick Gorman, data released by the Health Department yesterday showed that in WA, in I think, outback south, Indigenous vaccination rates are just seven percent. How vulnerable are people in those communities and does the state government need to urgently do more here?

GORMAN: State and federal governments across the country need to urgently do more when it comes to Indigenous vaccination rates. There is no excuse for the numbers we are seeing, and there's no excuse from the Health Minister or the Prime Minister either, who simply didn't have enough vaccines to get all of these communities vaccinated.

They were supposed to be at the very top of the list and the data that we've seen out today shows that that's not what's happened. I'm really concerned about what we're seeing and the information that's now being provided around what's happening with misinformation being spread in those communities by some non-government organisations.

I think one of the solutions, we know that the federal government's communications plans around the vaccine promotion have not been great, and we know that they don't work in some of these remote Indigenous communities here in WA. Let's give the Aboriginal-controlled health organisations the resources they need to communicate, to run those public information campaigns and to get the vaccines out there. They do fabulous work here in WA, I've seen some success stories from Derbarl Yerrigan and other Aboriginal health organisations. But let's make sure they've got the vaccine, that step one, and give them the resources to communicate and get them out there, because this has the sense of a looming national disaster if we don't get it right.

MACMILLIAN: All right, we'll have to leave it there. Patrick Gorman and Anne Webster, thank you very much for your time.

WEBSTER: Thank you.