Transcript - Sky News with Tom Connell - Friday, 20 August 2021
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS NEWSDAY WITH TOM CONNELL
FRIDAY, 20 AUGUST 2021
SUBJECTS: NSW COVID response, WA COVID response, Who will cut Jason’s hair?
TOM CONNELL, HOST: Welcome back, we've had a lot of press conferences, you can deny the viewers certain things, but you can't deny them Jason Falinski and Patrick Gorman. We've squeezed them in at the end. Gentlemen, thank you. I hope your sanities staying intact there. Jason in particular. Patrick, we know you're enjoying the good life over there in Perth. Jason, I'll start with you, though. The Premier today, essentially, they've been saying we've got these tough rules, no one's following them, so now we'll introduce some tougher ones. Will that work?
JASON FALINSKI, LIBERAL MP: No.
CONNELL: So why is she doing it?
FALINSKI: It just won't. I mean, honestly, you got to have things in place that are built in science and data that have worked. And I think, Tom, you, me, Pat, we've all been saying the same thing from the very beginning, which is that this is a problem of compliance. So you can have the toughest rules in the world, but if no one is following them, well, you may as well not. Let's just go back to what works. So in New South Wales at the moment, we have a situation where this outbreak started in eastern suburbs. They've had lower standards, or lower restrictions than are now in south west Sydney. The virus and case numbers and the number of deaths in the eastern suburbs have been dropping for weeks and weeks and weeks now, but they keep going up in western Sydney. Now, there may be something going on in western Sydney that makes compliance harder. I don't know. But the fact of the matter remains that when these health orders are complied with, it works. When they're not complied with, it doesn't work and just having tougher and tougher rules for the sake of it.
CONNELL: So, I mean, compliance sort of relies on people. You can't police your way there because there just aren't the numbers if enough people don't want to do it. Do you need in New South Wales to think more about the carrot? Remember when we were all talking about let's do more outdoor things, why not allow small gatherings outdoors? There's very little evidence that actually transmits, you might get more buy-in because people will say, I can visit someone, I can visit a family member, I can see a grandkid in an outdoor setting, in a park, whatever it might be.
FALINSKI: Listen Tom, you're absolutely right. I mean, you get these things where not only is there little evidence, there appears to be no evidence that you can transmit COVID outdoors unless there's direct bodily contact in terms of kissing and things like that. So, you end up in this situation of well, we're just making people sit at home getting more and more frustrated. And, it's like this curfew we've now got. I mean, the Police Commissioner comes out and says, well, there's no evidence that this actually does anything, so we're going to have one anyway. I just don't understand the point of this.
FALINSKI: Patrick, your views?
PATRICK GORMAN, SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Well, I think where we can, particularly when we talk about states outside of the state that we're in, we should support the premiers and the work they do. So, I support the call that Premier Berejiklian and her cabinet have made today. These things are difficult, but it's clear that what Sydney's been doing for the last few weeks hasn't been enough. So, you've got to do something more. And I take the points that Jason has made. But, sometimes sending a signal to people saying that we want more compliance and we are going to have to keep putting in more restrictions until we get this under control, I mean, that's all we've got. Business as usual.
CONNELL: But you can try a different approach. As I said, if it's all stick and the stick's not working, you can add some carrot in there. That is another approach. It's not, it's not only you can do more restrictions. That's not the only thing people can do here.
GORMAN: Tom, I'm Team Carrot. Labor has been out there saying we need a carrot. We suggested the $300 incentive for people to go and get vaccinated. And then it was Jason's friends in the Liberal Party who said ...
CONNELL: Well they're vaccinating crazy numbers though already in Sydney. Six per cent of the eligible population in a week got a vaccination. Right now, vaccinations, you don't need any more incentive seemingly in Sydney, it's about compliance. How do you get people to follow rules?
GORMAN: It's tough. We're talking about humans, humans are complex. No one likes these restrictions of freedom. I completely understand that. But we have to do what it takes to suppress this virus. It kills people. It's putting children in hospital. If we don't do everything we've got right now, we're going to have worse problems in a week. Worse problems in two weeks. So, let's just throw everything we've got at it. Some people will say it's too late, but it's a good thing what the Premier has done today. I support her. Hopefully it starts to turn the corner.
FALINSKI: So, Tom.
CONNELL: Can I ask you this Patrick? Go on Jason.
FALINSKI: So, Tom, what I was going to say, Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting to get a different result. The definition of absurdity is doing more of the same thing that's not working over and over again and expecting to get a different result. More restrictions, and please don't get me wrong. I understand the need for restrictions, but just going harder and harder and harder expecting it to work is, I just don't know how that's going to happen.
CONNELL: Let me ask you this, Patrick. Just on WA, because we had an interview with Andrew Clennell and the Premier last week in which he said even beyond 80 per cent of vaccination in the state, he would aim for COVID zero. If aiming for COVID zero means shutting borders off to states with only one or two local cases, which has happened in the past, beyond 80 per cent vaccination, is that the right approach?
GORMAN: What we've seen time and time again is that these approaches have evolved as we've found ourselves in different situations. Obviously, it was just a few months ago that Western Australia had its borders open to everywhere, and then there were times where other states shut their borders to Western Australia, when we had small outbreaks. So, the state governments do adjust to these things. Now, when it comes to the question of 80 per cent vaccination, that is still a while off. Here in Western Australia, unfortunately, we do have a lower vaccination rate. Maybe people don't feel the urgency. Maybe they feel the safety of distance of the Nullarbor. Whatever it is, 80 per cent vaccination is a while off for us. So, we have to accept that reality. Of course, I urge everyone to go and book as soon as possible. If you haven't booked already and you're eligible, you've really got no excuse anymore. Go and get it done.
CONNELL: I totally agree. But COVID zero, beyond 80 per cent. We need to talk about this now. The Premier has spoken about this ahead of when it's happening. Would pursuing COVID zero, if it means shutting off a border to a state with maybe one or two cases, beyond 80 percent vaccination, would that still be the right approach? Or is that going too far to trying to have COVID at zero in the state?
GORMAN: I don't feel, and I don't sit in the National Cabinet, I don't feel that National Cabinet had a proper discussion about this. Yes, they put out a slide deck. They put out some PowerPoint slides saying what they were going to do. But it's 80 per cent of people who are eligible for a vaccination. What we're seeing now is huge outbreaks amongst children. That's something we didn't experience last year, and it's something that concerns me, and I know it's something that concerns a lot of parents in my electorate. We need to make sure that we are really open. I also believe that when it comes to that question of basically vaccinating the adults and letting it rip amongst the kids, which is ultimately what is being suggested in some parts, we've actually got to consult with children about this. They should have a say in what's happening in their country because they're the ones that don't have access to a vaccine. And that is something that really does concern me.
CONNELL: We'll pick up on that. I'm not sure anyone said let it rip there, but it was Doherty modelling suggesting this approach and also the fact that so far, thankfully, more children are getting this, but there isn't an increased rate of serious illness. Very quickly, Jason. Have you thought about when you finally get your wife to cut your hair, given hairdressers might not be open for a while?
FALINSKI: My wife I'm happy to cut my hair, it's my daughter I'm scared of.
CONNELL: There you go. Jason Falinski, Patrick Gorman, stay sane. I think you know which person that is aimed towards. Gentlemen appreciate your time. Thank you.
GORMAN: Thank you, Tom.
FALINSKI: How dare he, Patrick. How dare he.
ENDS