Transcript - Radio Interview - The West Live with Ben O'Shea - Wednesday, 10 November
BEN O'SHEA, HOST: Joining me now to unpack it all is federal Labor MP for Perth, Patrick Gorman. Good morning, Patrick.
PATRICK GORMAN, SHADOW ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Good morning, Ben.
O'SHEA: And so it seems like a bit of a backflip from Scott Morrison. This is a fellow who once claimed that electric vehicles could end the weekend because families would be charging their EVs instead of taking their kids to weekend sport. What did you make of the Future Fuel package?
GORMAN: Well, I think it shows that Scott Morrison doesn't know the future of technology when it comes to climate change. He's told us time and time again that we don't need to act. In the last month, he's become a born again believer in acting on climate change, and it's only because it's in his own interest. He's acting because he wants to win the next election. And what we saw yesterday was a pure election stunt, just like the 2019 claim that electric vehicles would end the weekend was an election stunt. So in that fundamental make up of the Prime Minister, he hasn't changed a bit. I think the most disappointing thing for your listeners is that none of his plan makes it any cheaper for families to get into an electric car. And that's the big problem with his plan.
O'SHEA: Well, let's talk about that. The specifics. You know, there's 400 businesses, 50,000 homes would get charging stations for electric vehicles. But as you say, it doesn't sort of measurably reduce the ticket price of these vehicles. And the Motor Trade Association of WA CEO Stephen Moir has said that if Europe is like The Jetsons when it comes to electric vehicles, this new policy makes Australia look like The Flintstones.
GORMAN: It was a very colourful description from Stephen Moir of Scott Morrison's policy being The Flintstones equivalent when it comes to electric cars. My problem is that when you talk about 50,000 home charging stations, that's where the Prime Minister's going to give money to people to put charging stations in their houses. Here in Western Australia, we've got 2.3 million cars. That's so, you know, 50,000 across the nation is a drop in the ocean. We'd be lucky to get 5000 of those across WA, and they going to be locked up in private garages. I've got an electric car. I just plug it into the power point. I don't need any more infrastructure in my house. I plug it into the power point, the infrastructure is already there. So, I don't think he really understands what life is like living with an electric car. And I just think it would be much better if we did something to make it more affordable for families to get into these vehicles.
O'SHEA: Right. So what's Labor going to do then?
GORMAN: We've committed to tax cuts when it comes to electric vehicles. We believe that if we want to give people real choice, let's take the taxes off electric cars. So that means taking the five percent import tariff off electric cars. Currently, every electric car that comes into the country gets the same import tariff as every other car. If we cut that five per cent import tariff, that makes for about $2000 cheaper for your average family, you can get into a car for about just over $40,000. And hopefully, we'll start to get some of those cheaper cars that we see in Europe and the States available here in Australia. And the other thing is we can do something to build the second hand market. Now, if you're a student or a pensioner and you're looking at buying a second hand car at the moment, there's no electric cars available in your price range. So we are going to cut the fringe benefits tax, which will encourage big fleet buyers to buy electric, and in two or three years time, those cars will be on the second hand market, at a discount, available for people who prefer to buy a second hand car to save a little bit of money.
O'SHEA: And $2000 is nothing to sneeze at, but also, you know, like if you're talking about $40,000 vehicle, it still may be expensive for a lot of families out there. There's still the perception, I guess, that it's, you know, sort of it's a rich person's toy.
GORMAN: Well, the reality at the moment is that there are no electric cars available in Australia for under $40,000, and there's just five available for under $60,000. If you compare that to the United Kingdom, there are about 24 different electric cars available in that under $60,000 price range. And it's because Australia is not seen as a priority for the car manufacturers. The products are out there. It's just that the manufacturers are choosing not to send them to Australia because there's more support and more government policy supporting electric cars in other countries. So we're kind of at the back of the queue. And if we get some policy right, we'll actually turn that around. And I also hope it will help Australian manufacturers, too, because if Australia is serious about electric cars, then that helps that manufacturers when they're trying to export products overseas because we seem to be part of that global solution.
O'SHEA: Let's talk about the manufacturers because it seems to me, at least, that we're at a point in Australian history where it's never been more conducive to encouraging people to drive electric, because we don't have those sort of traditional Australian car manufacturers that we had to prop up.
GORMAN: That's right. I mean, it is sad that we saw the closure of Holden and we don't have an Australian car manufacturing capacity anymore, but what we're seeing across the country and indeed here in Western Australia, we're now manufacturing a lot of things ourselves again. The great example is trains. Now, 30 years ago, we converted the train fleet here in WA, the train network from diesel to electric. And now 30 years after that transition, we're making those trains here in Western Australia again, out in Bellevue. So there's obviously opportunity for us to be in the assembly, manufacturing and design space as well. And I want to make sure that we have a national policy that looks at how we integrate Australian businesses into those supply chains. Because we do have great manufacturers, we've got great training, we've got great taste here in Australia. We just need to make sure that all lines up.
O'SHEA: And what about the mining industry, Patrick? We know that the Andrew Forrest's of the world are increasingly making their businesses greener, but do we need to do more to, I guess, incentivise that sector to to go electric?
GORMAN: I actually believe that the mining industry is going to get there, probably on their own steam. And that's why Labor, I mean, we put out our policy about electric cars quite a while ago, so people could see it, and focused on helping consumers make the switch. What the mining industry tells me is that they expect that about 60 per cent of new mines built in Australia will be fully electric, because they look at these things over 10 and 20 year timeframes. So they're kind of getting on with it. There's some really exciting work being done about how they electrify their fleet, I was out at the Kalgoorlie Super Pit, and they've got a few smaller electric vehicles there. It's happening. And what we just need to do is encourage that. And I think again, if people are seeing electric cars in their garages at work, then they'll obviously start thinking about it. If they're working in a mining site or elsewhere, where where else might we be able to go electric?
O'SHEA: I get the sense that, as you say, the mining industry is going to be at the forefront of this, this change, this trend. But does that mean that you're you're in agreement with the Prime Minister this morning, who said that the secret to reducing emissions was 'can-do capitalism' rather than government policies? You know, let the let the private sector do it instead of government trying to, in his words, control people's lives?
GORMAN: When it comes to climate change, no one can avoid their responsibility. We can't say the private sector will do it, and therefore government will just sit on our hands. Everyone has to take action. We've got take action in our private lives. The private sector needs to take action, but the government needs to take action. That's what's going to drive investment. And that's the biggest thing that's been holding Australia back, is without having a commitment to net zero, and indeed, even the Prime Minister now is refusing to legislate that commitment. That puts a lot of uncertainty into the private sector. It means that companies don't know whether Australia is the best place to invest because they've seen over the last decade a climate policy ricochet all over the room, very unclear what it is the government actually stands for. So yes, the private sector is doing a lot, and I encourage that and I applaud it. But I don't think that that means the government doesn't have to do its job. That's what governments are elected to do.
O'SHEA: And now, everything has to be framed around a looming federal election. You've hinted at it this morning already that Scomo's in campaign mode with this climate change. But I'm curious to know, you know, this is this is a real, I guess, left turn, literal left turn for the Liberal Party. Historically, you know, they've been more likely to prop up the coal industry than talk about net zero. I guess I'm curious to know what you think the electorate makes of all of it.
GORMAN: Look, I think they're a bit sick of it. You can't take people for fools, and people who follow this closely would have seen what the Prime Minister said at the last election and they'd say what he said now. And I think the risk for any politician and I think this is a big risk for the Prime Minister right now is that when you're seen to be acting more in your political interest than in the interest of the people that you serve, then people are going to stop listening. And when they stop listening, you can't implement your policies. So, yeah, I'm look, let's be honest, I don't think if we weren't as close to an election as we are, we wouldn't be seeing this policy by the Prime Minister, nor would he have moved on the question of net zero. And there's obviously, I saw he was out with Katie Allen, the member for Higgins, who clearly seems to be a bit nervous about what her electorate is saying to her about climate change versus what the government is doing. So that's really interesting that the Prime Minister sort of responded to that too. And I guess I'd just encourage all of your listeners, it's a sign that if you care about these issues, go and put pressure on your politicians, whether they be Labor, Liberal or the Greens, you've actually got to get out there and say, This is what I expect you to do and these are my concerns because that's the only way that policy is developed and changed for the better.
O'SHEA: And now talking one more question about the federal election. So the polling shows that that some of the electorate has been pretty dissatisfied, I guess, with Scott Morrison. And it's been, I guess, resulted in a in a sort of a bump for Labor, even though some of those same opinion polls show that that Anthony Albanese maybe hasn't experienced that same bump himself in terms of how people see him as a potential Prime Minister. The thinking before Glasgow and G20 was saying Scomo back on the world stage would help him as far as establishing his credentials as a world leader in the eyes of the Australian electorate. Do you think it backfired a little bit?
GORMAN: Look, as an Australian, I felt embarrassed about our Prime Minister's conduct on the world stage, refusing to wear his mask when every other leader, even Mathias Cormann, was wearing their mask. Leaking text messages against a foreign leader. Those things, for me feel quite uncomfortable. That's not the Australia that I think we should be projecting to the world. So it probably has not been our greatest Prime Ministerial overseas trip. And maybe it's maybe diplomacy is not his strength. But what we do need to see is actually a bit more diplomacy and a little bit less politics when it comes into the foreign policy space. And I think the Prime Minister, hopefully having had these rough trip that he did, will learn that lesson.
O'SHEA: What a great article that would be. The top five biggest Prime Ministerial cluster you-know-what trips of all time. I would certainly read it, and this one would be right up there. Federal Labor MP for Perth, Patrick Gorman. Always a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for joining us on the West Live this morning.
GORMAN: Thank you, Ben. Have a good day.