Transcript - Radio Interview - The West Live with Ben O'Shea

RADIO INTERVIEW
THE WEST LIVE WITH BEN O'SHEA
THURSDAY, 23 JULY 2020
 
SUBJECTS: Budget deficit; JobKeeper and JobSeeker; Perth City Deal; deferred Parliamentary sitting; WA state election
 
BEN O'SHEA, HOST: It's a big day in federal politics. Treasurer Josh Frydenberg is about to hand down his budget update and it's expected to reveal the worst deficit Australia has seen since World War Two. Joining me now is Federal Labor MP for Perth Patrick Gorman. Patrick, good to see you in the studio.
 
PATRICK GORMAN, FEDERAL MEMBER FOR PERTH: Ben, good to be here.
 
O'SHEA: Now let's get straight into this budget update. What do you think WA can expect?
 
GORMAN: Look these are figures that are hard for even those of us that track the federal budget very closely to comprehend - an $850 billion deficit in total as Federal Government debt. We're going to see some pretty shocking numbers. Some numbers that aren't just the result of the coronavirus but of the fact that our economy has been quite soft for a long time. Sometimes it doesn't feel like that here in the West compared to where things are elsewhere. But you know I think a lot of you know that there's been people who've been struggling for a long time and now that we've got some 1.6 million Australians on JobSeeker things are going to get really tough and so we're in for some really shocking numbers.
 
O'SHEA: And well the Treasurer described it as an eye watering number that the deficit will come out at today, is it something that we need to worry about though?
 
GORMAN: Well this is debt that will be repaid for decades. I think the Treasurer has said that it will be some 30 years before this the costs of this economic shock are fully paid off. Now 30 years, I won't be in Parliament in 30 years. I don't think really any of my colleagues will be. This is a debt that is going to be a problem for future generations of politicians to grapple with. And we've seen from here in Western Australia how hard it is for state governments and federal governments to deal with those long-term debt problems. Having said that, I mean we support the spend that has happened on JobKeeper and JobSeeker. And of course, we recognise that the huge drop in income is because businesses have had a terrible time and that's real people, real families who are going to feeling the worst of this. You know in terms of who's worse off, I don't lie awake worried about the Federal Government's financial position - I worry about families' financial positions and how we can best help them.
 
O'SHEA: Well I think about a Liberal Federal Government paying out so much money in unemployment benefits, it's almost enough to bring a tear to an eye of previous Liberal governments.
 
GORMAN: Well it wasn't that long ago that you could go onto eBay and buy a Back in Black mug from the Liberal Party because they were telling us they had returned us to surplus. In 2013, Joe Hockey had said that he'd have a surplus each and every year. That hasn't happened. So it is some humble pie for the Liberal Party. But having said that, people do want us to be productive and constructive in this period of time. Continuing JobKeeper in particular is something that myself and many colleagues have been calling for and I'm pleased to see that they announced that on Tuesday.
 
O'SHEA: Well it is coming back but there's not much of it coming back. It's going to be reduced payments and the people who will qualify for it will change and the businesses will have to prove that they deserve it. What do you think about those changes that are proposed?
 
GORMAN: They're reasonable and it's much better than sort of having a hard financial cliff for those businesses. I am concerned about what happens with JobSeeker, or what was Newstart, beyond Christmas. I think it's really tough for people who know, you know if you're a 55 year old bloke living in Morley in my electorate and worked in a trade and you don't really have a sense that you're going to be able to get a job in the next few years, to not know even what your Centrelink income will be beyond Christmas I think is a pretty tough thing. So I think the Government should, as soon as possible, give us more certainty to those people, and indeed businesses are already saying they need certainty beyond the current extended JobKeeper. Qantas have said that they will need financial support well into 2021, possibly beyond.
 
O'SHEA: And you think JobKeeper has helped enough people, are there too many people falling through the cracks, or do you think considering the speed at which it had to be implemented it's done an okay job?
 
GORMAN: An okay job is how I would describe it. Of course, you don't hear from the people as much where everything has gone well, there's a lot of people who have said that hasn't worked for them. Casuals. And I think about my electorate, the electorate of Perth, the CBD, the nightlife district. Thousands and thousands of casuals who've lost their jobs and were unable to get JobKeeper. That's one thing that I really had expected that the government would have addressed. They haven't. They've now had four months. So some of those things I think can look a little bit mean spirited, rather than you know the vibe of we're all in this together. So yeah there's been gaps, and for some of those I think the excuses have run out and while it's really time that we do something for those casuals who have been bouncing from job to job for years and years.
 
O'SHEA: And does it feel like that earlier this year when the pandemic first started to hit Australia and everybody pulled in and worked together there was a sort of a sense of Kumbayah in federal politics, has that worn off now?
 
GORMAN: I think there's a lot more Kumbayah behind the scenes than we ever get credit for. You know we don't sit around and have a song session but people get along. You know you recognise that for the most part people are doing this because they strongly believe in representing their communities. You know, it's full of people who care about the future of Australia. Yes we have different ways of how you would get to that point, but look there's enough of that, and there's enough goodwill. I've always said that I think in terms of the sort of Opposition Leader you'd want in a crisis like this Anthony Albanese has been the sort of person who learned the lessons of the global financial crisis saw how the Liberal Party behaved under Tony Abbott and other leaders indeed Malcolm Turnbull, and said "No, I don't want to be like that. I want to be constructive". And I think that's been a really good thing for the country.
 
O'SHEA: I think the electorate wants that as well from our politicians at the moment. Now looking a little bit closer to home with the Perth City Deal which affects your electorate.
 
GORMAN: Well it's not affecting my electorate at all because it hasn't happened.
 
O'SHEA: It hasn't happened, exactly. Well it might affect it if it doesn't happen. So what is what is the latest on that?
 
GORMAN: Well it's now 15 months late. That's the that's the thing that frustrates me no end. We're seeing a lot of different ideas bouncing around about what could be included. My state colleague John Carey is pushing for a pool at the WACA as part of a new community hub. I've been a strong voice for having something at the WACA but that's not a full city deal. Other states have had billions and billions of dollars. Western Australia is at the moment missing out. I'm really worried that we're going to kind of get a raw deal, a smaller cut because of the delays from the Federal Government.
 
O'SHEA: Well surely we can do better than putting a pool in the backyard?
 
GORMAN: Well I've been a strong advocate for a National Centre of Indigenous Culture and History. There's a lot of infrastructure needs light rail. There's been other suggestions around things we can continue to do in universities and TAFE into building more of that education resource in the inner city. These are all good ideas and in a good comprehensive City Deal between the City of Perth the federal government and the state. All of these things can be accommodated. The challenge is just to get it done. The Federal Government should put the money on the table and start pushing it out the door because that will mean jobs for Western Australians, jobs for people in my electorate of Perth and it will mean that we have great cultural and community infrastructure for decades to come.
 
O'SHEA: How much more difficult is it going to be though to get that money on the table given this the eye watering deficit that's being handed down today and the prospect of at least another 12 months of really severe economic pain?
 
GORMAN: The Federal Government has to continue investing in infrastructure. That's the fact of it. It's one of the core responsibilities of the Federal Government. They tell us and they've been telling us time and time again in Question Time that they have got $100 billion infrastructure pipeline. I know that Western Australia's not getting a fair share of that and there are great projects that could be done. I've mentioned light rail, you could start the planning and scoping for that. We'll soon be the only capital city on the mainland of Australia that doesn't have a light rail system. Even Canberra has got a light rail and that's a population of sort of just 400,000. I mean how can how can Western Australia, how can our Perth CBD not have a light rail system? We know it's great for tourism, you can connect Kings Park, Elizabeth Quay, the stadium and casino precinct, universities, there's so many opportunities. The federal government has just got to pick a few and get on with it.
 
O'SHEA: We talk about having a go at them in Question Time. That's one thing that you haven't really been doing very much of this year and it's not for want of trying. You just haven't been able to.
 
GORMAN: It's a constant disappointment that we don't have the Parliament sitting on a regular schedule. I think most people get this sense that politicians aren't doing their full job if they're not advocating for their communities in Canberra. Now you know, we continue to work and continue to do things but it has been very disappointing and I think four months into this pandemic to not have a plan of how Parliament can continue to sit, knowing that we going continue to have these problems, there will continue to be outbreaks, there will continue to be medical challenges and economic challenges. And as you just said, we've got these huge economic challenges, you know eye watering deficits, if we're not debating how we best manage that then we're going end up with sub-optimal outcomes.
 
O'SHEA: Now Scomo might not have a plan for running Federal Parliament as per usual but I believe you do.
 
GORMAN: Well I've been a strong advocate for a long period of time for having Parliament sit around the country not just in Canberra. Geoff Gallop used to do this when he was Premier, he used to take the entire parliament including the opposition around, I think he did it in Geraldton, Albany. I want to see the Federal Parliament do that as well. So this might be the opportunity. If we can have the AFL come here and bid for the AFL grand final. I'll tell you there's a lot less hoo-ha with the Federal Parliament than there is the grand final of the AFL. So you could probably host Parliament here, you could do it at Optus Stadium even, there's some great facilities there, you could do it at Rottnest Island, we could take it over for four days at a time. There's lots of different ways to do this and I raise it because it's unacceptable that we don't have a proper plan for the Parliament to continue sitting. Now Canberra's obviously built for it so that should be our first choice but if that's what it takes to continue our democratic traditions then yes bring Parliament here to Western Australia. We'll build our own parliamentary bubble: the Canberra Bubble 2.0.
 
O'SHEA: Well we can have a footy bubble; they're talking about having a FIFO bubble. But I wonder though, you know we got Steele Sidebottom and De Goey over here, are there any politicians that we need to worry about bringing them over to Western Australia?
 
GORMAN: Look I got to say, Josh Wilson my colleague for Fremantle is a pretty good sports player so there's a risk of course that he would he would switch codes as they say. But no, I think everyone would behave themselves they would be grateful to be here and if accommodation is at a premium, the Prime Minister can stay at my place.
 
O'SHEA: Well wouldn't that be fantastic to have Sco-mo over here. And now I'm sure you saw the polling in The West Australian today and as I mentioned at the top of the show, what do you what do you think about the plight facing Liza Harvey right now?
 
GORMAN: I think it is a tough time for oppositions anywhere in the world right now. But Liza Harvey seems to have been able to make it even tougher for herself which is a spectacular thing.
 
O'SHEA: It's a pretty impressive achievement in itself.
 
GORMAN: It is. Look, that they shouldn't be in this position right now. They should be in a very different position of looking to grow and rebuild the Liberal Party. I get the sense they haven't done the hard policy work of what it is actually believe in and what they actually think they can offer to the people of Western Australia. And you've also got, well I've been a long term member of the Mark McGowan fan club, and Mark has done an incredible job. His whole team have worked incredibly hard. So that poll also if I remember correctly was in May. So things have moved on a bit. I don't believe you can count your chickens before Election Day. Indeed I'm a member of the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party and we might have made that mistake in May last year.
 
O'SHEA: Yes, exactly. A few less chickens than you thought you might have had. But your own experience here with WA Labor, you know what it's like to claw your way back to relevance from a very dark place. Realistically if the Libs lose even more seats at the next state election how long will it be before they'll be relevant as a political power?
 
GORMAN: Well what we know from politics here in Western Australia and across the globe is that it is an increasingly volatile electoral world in which we operate. If you think about the history for Premier McGowan and indeed he stood in 2013 and had a swing against him but that was then able to achieve a magic swing towards Labor and pick up some 20 seats in 2017. So things do -
 
O'SHEA: Miracles happen.
 
GORMAN: Well the Prime Minister would say miracles happen. I would say it's a very volatile business that we're in. So what you see is that those numbers, yeah there'll be some hard questions being asked inside Liza Harvey's Liberal Party today, but it is actually one of those times where the reality is the only poll that matters is on election day because we've got a long time to go. But right now I guess what I'd say to my friends in the State Parliamentary Labor Party is, your enemy isn't Liza Harvey, your enemy is complacency. That's the reality of it. At the moment there is not an effective Opposition but you can't take that for granted. You've got to be out there every day listening to people, talking to them, hearing their concerns. And I think that is what they're all doing. I mean my Instagram feed is full of Labor MPs out there doorknocking. I probably don't follow enough of the Liberals on Instagram to know whether they're doing it as well, I'm sure they are.
 
O'SHEA: Well and that'd be great for WA. All right, Federal Labor Member for Perth Patrick Gorman. Thank you for joining me today. I look forward to talking to you again when you've got Scomo sleeping on your couch.
 
GORMAN: We'll see if we can get a spare bed for him. Thank you very much Ben.
 
O'SHEA: Thanks Patrick.
 
ENDS