Transcript - TV Interview - Sky News - Thursday, 13 February 2020

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS ON THE HOUR
THURSDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 2020
 
SUBJECTS: Potential breakaway faction of LNP; National Party leadership tension; meetings of politicians; Government funding coal-fired power; Matt Canava; Backbench; Government's problems with submarines; Ensuring Integrity; sports rorts; "Treat Tuesday".  

HOST: Welcome back. It's time for Gorman Falinski - Patrick Gorman and Jason Falinski.

JASON FALINSKI, MEMBER FOR MACKELLAR: Surely it's Falinski Gorman - come on.

HOST: All right.

HOST: It's alphabetical, isn't it?

FALINSKI: When you're in Government it can be Gorman Falinski if I'm still here.

PATRICK GORMAN, MEMBER FOR PERTH: Jason has also been here longer than me. I respect the seniority,

FALINSKI: I have to pay that one. I have to pay that one.

HOST: What a start. Now that was agreement but there is not enough agreement coming from the Nationals at the moment, Jason Falinski. Barnaby Joyce and Matt Canavan in a podcast. I'm not sure if you've listened to it yet. They say no maliciousness or grand plan for the spill, it just sort of happened. Do you believe that?

FALINSKI: Yes of course I do. It was organic. It's the National Party. They're into organics, as you know. So it just happened. Just happened.

HOST: So you sound like you're being rather sarcastic.

FALINSKI: No, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't know sarcasm. You know, I'm from the inner city.

HOST: Not quite sure where to go with this. Clearly this was planned, clearly it was co-ordinated. Matthew Canavan resigned the night before. It sounds ridiculous, this podcast, doesn't it?

FALINSKI: I think the events are pretty obvious. I mean Bridget McKenzie's resignation then created a spill which Barnaby then said "Well if we're gonna have a spill then I'll stand for leader",  and then that prompted what happened thereafter. So from that point of view, I guess it was organic but yeah.

HOST: How can we not have faith that this isn't going to happen again soon? Barnaby's said from the get go he's got his hand up if there's a spill. It seems like the tensions are still there. We're talking about potentially a breakaway faction in the LNP to represent Queenslanders.

FALINSKI: So we're keeping it entertaining for you at this point in time. Look you know that's the nature of democracy. People are allowed to contest things. Ideas get contested positions get contested and yeah will happen in the future. There's no doubt about that. Whether it's in the National Party or not.

GORMAN: So it will happen in the future?

FALINSKI: I mean there could be, I don't know, dinner parties happening as we speak this very week. Patrick, I don't know if you have them.

GORMAN: Let's just stick on the party that is actually having leadership tensions - the National Party. Are you saying you expect that there will continue be tensions?

FALINSKI: No, I don't expect there to be any more of leadership tensions in the Nationals.

GORMAN: Who will be the Deputy Prime Minister at the next election?

FALINSKI: Well I imagine Michael McCormack. But you know as Shakespeare would say "who can look into the seeds of time, Patrick".

HOST: What about the Otis dinner, Patrick? What about the Otis dinner, Patrick? A group of 20 MPs meeting on climate change. Do they have a point about not going too far, making too drastic a pitch to voters?

GORMAN: Well I think it's reasonable that people would have conversations about our policy positions on a whole range of things. As you know every single one of our policies is under review. But let's not pretend that a dinner amongst the MPs is anything more than what it is. I mean ...

FALINSKI: It's not a conspiracy.

GORMAN: It's a dinner.

FALINSKI: It's a dinner.HOST: Can we clarify, were you at the dinner?

GORMAN: I was not at the dinner. But I will also admit that I have eaten at Otis restaurant and it's a lovely place and they've got a great wine list.

HOST: I seem to be the only one that didn't have a good experience there. They put us right under the air conditioner.

GORMAN: I'll lend you a jumper.

HOST: But you say everyone from Labor so -

FALINSKI: I think it's a bit rich for you to complain about cold because last time I saw Annaliese her face had gone deep crimson.

HOST: That's because I'm an intrepid in-the-field reporter. Tom's used to the studio life.

FALINSKI: That's right.

HOST: We're in the studio now. But it's my understanding, Labor says there's nothing, but this is my understanding. Joel Fitzgibbon was summoned to Anthony Albanese's office after this emerged.

GORMAN: Look I don't know anything about that. So whether your understanding is correct or not I really couldn't claim ...

HOST: Trust me on it.

GORMAN: I do trust you Tom but ...

HOST: That doesn't imply it's nothing essentially does it?

GORMAN: It was a dinner and it doesn't excite me what my colleagues do for dinner. I'm going to let you in on a secret. I had dinner with my dad on Tuesday night. That was a lovely dinner. No conspiracy there either. He's not seeking Labor Party preselection for anything.

HOST: Making sure he's going to vote for you at the next election?

GORMAN: He doesn't live in my electorate which I would like him to fix. But he won't be voting for me at the next election. He'll vote for my good friend Josh Wilson.

HOST: And just on the substance of the issue with the Nats, as well Jason Falinski. So Collinsville is expected not to be viable. If that's the case should that be the end of any government money towards coal-fired power in Australia?

FALINSKI: So are you talking about sort of taxpayers building a coal-fired power station?

HOST: Well yeah but even the viability. What if there's a push after that - a let's see if one is viable in New South Wales - should this be the end of the discussion if this one's not viable?

FALINSKI: I've got to be honest and say I don't think this is the role for the Commonwealth Government. This is really a role for state governments. That's that'swhere, they are traditionally the level of government that have built and operated power plants. In New South Wales, they've had a free market for quite some time, the same in Victoria. If there are private companies that want to come in and build or retrofit coal-fired power stations then they should do so and we should create the framework in which they can make those assessments and make those investments.

HOST: So if you take out the factor whether it's a state or federal government issue you still don't have an issue with taxpayer money going towards exploring ...

FALINSKI: Oh no, I do. I'm a Liberal. I don't think that taxpayers should be involved in private sector businesses and if they are should be to the minimal amount as possible because what we've seen in history is that governments aren't good at running things.

HOST: Even though one of the tenets of your Government is supporting small businesses...

GORMAN: Don't be so hard on the Government, Jason. I mean they're not good at running a few things.

FALINSKI: PJ O'Rourke said you know "Republicans don't believe government works and they spend all their time getting elected to prove it".

HOST: I feel like you must have bought quote toilet paper this week or something.

FALINSKI: That's unfair they're my two favourite and I've got one left.

HOST: What's the last one?

FALINSKI: Well I'm glad you asked. It's "good judgment comes from experience and experience well that comes from bad judgment".

HOST: Your experience of the Nats and coal-fired power ..

FALINSKI: See he's now going to try and turn that into a question

HOST: What did your experience say ...

FALINSKI: Just impossible.

HOST: ... whether or not ...

FALINSKI: But he won't leave an air conditioned restaurant.

HOST: If this is found not to be viable, Matthew Canavan says he will accept that decision. Is that something that they need to hold to. They've got the $4 million for the viability study. If it's not they need to stop saying there's a government role in coal-fired power.

FALINSKI: Yeah I think that's right. I mean you know, any proper government decision needs to, you know, to take undertake a feasibility study first. We're doing that. If that's what the feasibility study comes back and says Matt has said, "well that's the end of that". So that's where we're at.

GORMAN: Yeah I'm sure it's going to be the end. Well Matt is very happy being a backbencher, just as Barnaby Joyce is very happy being a backbencher, just as Bridget McKenzie is very happy being a backbencher. I, for the the record, am happy being a backbencher, but I think in the National Party you've got a lot of people who are looking for any avenue to cause division, to cause tension within the National Party and then to push it on to the Liberal Party.

HOST: Surely you must have aspirations beyond the backbench at some point?

FALINSKI: No ambition is just a curse in the National Party. It doesn't exist in the Labor Party.

HOST: No ambitions at all? So anyone watching this ...

HOST: So you don't want to be anything other than a backbencher?

GORMAN: I'd love to be a government minister one day. Not in that government, but yeah realistically -

FALINSKI: What ministry would you like to have? In what area?

GORMAN: Something that helps the Australian people.

HOST: Come on.

FALINSKI: That's good. Can I use that?

GORMAN: You can use that. You can quote me next time.

HOST: Come on.

GORMAN: I'm not sitting around like Barnaby everyday.

HOST: What's next, you just want to give 110 percent as well?

HOST: Are you suggesting that there's a ministerial portfolio that doesn't help the Australian people?

GORMAN: No I'm not.

HOST: OK, so there's none where'd you’d say we'd be better off without that.

FALINSKI: So Annaliese, can you think of any that don't help the Australian people?

HOST: I mean my opinion is something quite irrelevant.

GORMAN: And I'd like Jason to be a government minister, one day.

FALINSKI: Oh thank you Patrick. That's very kind of you.

GORMAN: I've said that.

FALINSKI: That's just so you can interrupt me in Question Time.

GORMAN: I look forward to your regular deliveries of three minute blocks.

HOST: Unfortunately as yet on AM Agenda, we don't hand out promotions, but we're doing our best.

FALINSKI: You should bring it a time limit here though.

HOST: On what?

FALINSKI: On answers.

HOST: One the whole thing. Well normally by now they'd be saying "wrap".  And just finally I wanted to ask about emerging issues with the building of submarines. Naval Group apparently didn't know the Australian market before they joined the program and now it's a lot harder than they thought. Is there a genuine thought of a plan B here that this whole thing might not be viable?

GORMAN: Well I mean that is a question for the government. What we've seen though is that the timelines have blown out under this government by about 10 years. There are great shipbuilders and technology companies in Australia who should be involved in this program. I'm really worried that the jobs that have been promised won't be delivered and that seems to be because the government hasn't managed these contracts as tightly as they should have. It is concerning.

HOST: Jason.

FALINSKI: Well look I'm happy to say I know literally nothing about submarines. And if I started to find out about them now I would still by the end of my life not know as much as the people who…

HOST: Do you read the articles saying Naval Group doesn't seem to know the Australian market.

FALINSKI: But you know can you really trust what you read in the newspapers these days?

GORMAN: Surely the government had an obligation to make sure that they did know the Australian market. Surely that was part of the tender process.

FALINSKI: Well we did. I mean one of the big things was instead of just outsourcing the building of military equipment here in Australia to someone who just sort of came in and did it and left with all the IP, was to actually get companies and contractors in Australia up the IP curve as well so that they have technology that they can transfer. And of course there's been that two way thing as well where there's a lot of US military equipment being purchased out of Australia so that you know we have this whole concept of force multipliers and things like that. Listen if you really want to get into this Andrew Hastie is the person to talk to. I just listen and nod at this point.

HOST: We'll try to get him on. Just finally can I get our thoughts on…

GORMAN: Should we make Andrew the Minister for Defence? So he can actually go and sort out this mess.

FALINSKI: Oh gosh I don't want to get in trouble with Linda. She has weapons behind her.

HOST: We've had Jacquie Lambie on this morning. She's not going to carry on any discussions on Ensuring Integrity until the Phil Gaetjens report into Sports Rorts is released in the Senate. Why isn't the Government just handing it over? It's handed over reports before.

FALINSKI: Have we?

HOST: Absolutely. Under Christopher Pyne and Julie Bishop's previous jobs.

FALINSKI: Well look it was my understanding that this just follows the normal procedure where those reports are done, the findings are handed and that's where we're at. So we're just following the normal course of events. I was unaware that there had been times where…

HOST: Does that give you pause for thought then?

FALINSKI: Everything you say gives me pause for thought, Tom. So I will take that away and contemplate…

HOST: But it's a convention, you can subvert that, it's not a law, it's not a regulation.

FALINSKI: No, but I do think conventions are important.

HOST: So the convention that the Pyne-Bishop and the bills and reports were released should be followed then?

FALINSKI: Will indeed Tom. However as I understand the convention, these reports are done, the findings are released.

HOST: That's the convention, when it suits the government.

FALINSKI: No I didn't say that. I don't think that's the case. I think a convention is observed more often than not.

HOST: And just finally before we go we do have an honourable mention for Mr Gorman today. It's a convention in the Sky News office that we have Treat Tuesday, where everyone brings in a treat - let me finish - on Tuesdays. Tom Connell forgot this Tuesday. We got a phone-in Wednesday with a bag of Skittles. So Patrick Gorman's actually been the biggest contributor to the Sky News Treat Tuesday this year. Look at that.

GORMAN: That is a Patrick Gorman Keep Cup full of chocolate Easter eggs. I want to be the first in Parliament. Yeah, Coles and Woolies beat me. I wanted to be the first in Parliament with Easter eggs for 2020.

FALINSKI: That's fantastic.

HOST: So thank you Patrick.

GORMAN: I'll drop some off to your office, Jason.

FALINSKI: Please do.

HOST: Good. Great to be made aware of this before we go to this segment.

FALINSKI: That's why Patrick got an easier time today.

HOST: I would like to point out that I'm off sugar at the moment but I selflessly brought in Skittles on Wednesday.

FALINSKI: Did you get forgiven after the Skittles.

HOST: No. They said they were unhygienic because I put them all in one big bowl.

HOST: Coronavirus is out there.

HOST: We'll let you get off to read some newspapers and decide if you want to be a backbencher or not. When we come back…

FALINSKI: Just promise us even if we do become ministers we can still come back.

HOST: You certainly can. Come on let's get to a break.

ENDS