TV Panel Interview - ABC News 24 with Greg Jennett
PATRICK GORMAN MP
MEMBER FOR PERTH
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS WITH GREG JENNETT
MONDAY, 18 FEBRUARY 2019
SUBJECTS: Cyber security, Royal Commission into abuse and prevention of violence against people living with a disability.
GREG JENNETT, HOST: In a moment, we'll talk to two MPs who, potentially, could have some of their confidential communications caught up in this hack. But we are in the countdown to Question Time in the House. It's the only chamber sitting this week as the Senate trawls through budget Estimates hearings for hour upon hour. So between now and 2 o’clock, we will cover off some of the major matters happening here on Capitol Hill. And we are joined here in our studio here by two backbenchers - the Labor MP for the seat of Perth, Patrick Gorman, and the Liberals' Chris Crewther. Patrick, to you first of all, in a previous life, you ran the WA Labor Party as State Secretary. What's on the servers that would be worth a "sophisticated state actor" targeting?
PATRICK GORMAN: I think the most concerning thing we heard from the report we were just listening in to is that we don't know exactly what has been taken. That's a real concern. All we know at the moment is that there have been attempts and by the sounds of things, successful attempts, to breach what are quite serious security mess put in place by political parties. Political parties do deal with the messages of members of Parliament, candidates.
JENNETT: Yeah, we're talking donor, we're talking campaign blue prints, I assume advertising and even what's called dirt files?
GORMAN: Even just the confidential information of staff who work for the political parties. Of course, it's a concern. What a sophisticated state actor was actually looking for, we don’t know. And unfortunately, we don't know what has been taken. That's what the report we just heard has said. And we don't know how that collaborates with what was being sought to be accessed from the Australian Parliament House network.
JENNETT: Chris, everyone is in this together, as far as those of us who are in these political parties or on the system. Do you feel vulnerable, violated in some way, that your private communications could be held we don't know, but could be held by someone?
CHRIS CREWTHER, LIBERAL MP: It's unfortunate that such an incident has occurred and I know that on a bipartisan level, both the Government and the Opposition, take security and cyber security very seriously, and I know that we'll be looking further into this incident. It is unfortunate that what appears to be a foreign state actor has interfered with our communications. Personally, not too worried myself, but I know that if confidential communications are interfered with, that could be an issue, not only for our side of Parliament but across the chamber.
JENNETT: The real threat if you looked at the US experience, of course, is that material, material you didn't want to get out, landed somehow in the hands of your opponents. A - do you see that as a risk? And B - do you think in the Australian context, the parties would be mature enough to have some sort of an agreement about not peddling that material if it surfaced?
CREWTHER: One never knows what material they were actually looking for, and if material was found or compromised at all. So it's uncertain if that would occur. I'm sure that there will be bipartisanship on some issues but I'm sure if either party got information on the other party that would potentially, for example, compromise the national interests or other things like that, then there could be a situation where those issues are raised.
JENNETT: The temptation would be great, but the prospects of some sort of agreement, some sort of a truce, armistice, if you like?
GORMAN: I think what we're going to see is good cooperation with the relevant cyber security agencies of the Commonwealth which are respected on all sides of politics. That's sort of approach we need just to make sure that there is coordinated action. In this case, political parties on all sides face the same types of challenges and at the end of the day; a political party is a volunteer organisation. The bulk of a political party are volunteer, people out doing things because they have a set of values that they share with the leadership of their party. You've also got to protect the volunteers from these sorts of things. You've got to make sure that we're actually working together, wherever possible, there is a mature dialogue with the Electoral Commission and other agencies as well.
CREWTHER: And we have to work on a bipartisan level as well to ensure Australia's national security and if anything does come out, we'll have to ensure that going forward.
JENNETT: Fair enough. It can't have escaped the attention of either of you that there are a number of disability advocates and people with disabilities themselves on the hill today in expectation of the Parliament passing a motion, perhaps even unanimously, calling for a Royal Commission. Chris, do you, first of all, has the Government given thought to what happens after the Parliament passes this?
CREWTHER: First, I'd say I think it is unfortunate in the way that politics has been played over people living with a disability. It's been a bipartisan issue, for example with funding the NDIS for many years. We've had inquiries in the past which have looked into abuse and neglect and we have responded to them. For example, with the NDIS quality and safeguards commission, through the Royal Commission into Aged Care and looking at people with a disability living in aged-care facilities.
JENNETT: You say that it is unfortunate and bipartisan, but it is just the Senate doing what it does.
CREWTHER: The Prime Minister will be looking into what we can further do regarding abuse and neglect for people living with a disability. We'll come out with further statements with respect to that. But if you look at people in my electorate - over the last three years, no-one has raised the issue of a Royal Commission into disabilities with me. It's only been raised for the first time in the last week by the Opposition. So in a way...
GORMAN: That's not true.
CREWTHER: No-one in the three years.
GORMAN: I can't speak for your electorate, but the Opposition, in May 2017, said that we would like to see a Royal Commission into the disability sector, abuse and neglect, making sure that people have confidence in the system that it runs at a state and a federal level. I don't think it's right to say that it's not been on the agenda until this point.
CREWTHER: No, what I'm saying is that it is an important issue and it is one that we have, up until now, worked on, on a bipartisan basis. What I'm saying is that constituents in my electorate of Dunkley, have not raised the issue of a Royal Commission with me until this time.
GORMAN: For my constituents in my electorate of Perth, I would like to see some action through the Parliament this week. Obviously, Labor voted in favour of this motion in the Senate. Labor will vote in favour of it in the House and hopefully we can start listening and working with the advocates to make sure that we get a Royal Commission that respects their wishes and leads to solid policy outcomes that everyone can see.
JENNETT: One way or another, it does look like we're going to get one. It's just a question of when and which Government delivers one before or after an election. There's so much more that we would have discussed with you but the cyber security issue robbed us of some time and you, both of you, have to get to Question Time, so we'll farewell you. Thank you Patrick and Chris, joining us in our studio here and maybe we will get to talk to you again, if not before the election, then afterwards.
ENDS